190 tank floor support
- Thread starter Dbondaruk
- Start date
prop-frags
SPS Slave
I'd get that looked at by a structural engineer. My first amateur reaction is that no, that will not be sufficient as-is for a 190. If I'm reading your diagram correctly and those stringers are 18' long, I would fear they would deflect more than would be safe.
leveldrummer
New member
a couple floor jacks like this http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/m...mpaignId=T9F&gclid=CIbIvrb1uLcCFc-f4Aod_CEAKw
and some short beams to hole up each end will support all the weight of the tank effectively.
as it stands, i would be worried the joists would sag over time (if not immediately) and the tank would become dangerous.
on a side note, are you going with the deep blue 190? thats the tank ive been eye balling. do you have it yet?
and some short beams to hole up each end will support all the weight of the tank effectively.
as it stands, i would be worried the joists would sag over time (if not immediately) and the tank would become dangerous.
on a side note, are you going with the deep blue 190? thats the tank ive been eye balling. do you have it yet?
Would a 6by 6 work same purpose as the metal post?
Yeah i did get the deep sea 190. Its really nice il post some pics tonight detail of it.i didnt want tk go that big but i got the tank on sale. Im just paranoid about it breaking a seal and water everywhere lol.
leveldrummer
New member
oh wait, those arent joists, those are trusses.
are they 24" apart?
i would seriously consider consulting a structural engineer about how to beef those up better, or whether they will hold the weight.
also, how much did you get the tank on sale for if you dont mind me askin? id love to see some detail pics of the overflow setup.
and why do you think it will leak? does deep sea have a reputation for that? or do you mean just because of the flooring that we are discussing?
Where are you located?
are they 24" apart?
i would seriously consider consulting a structural engineer about how to beef those up better, or whether they will hold the weight.
also, how much did you get the tank on sale for if you dont mind me askin? id love to see some detail pics of the overflow setup.
and why do you think it will leak? does deep sea have a reputation for that? or do you mean just because of the flooring that we are discussing?
Where are you located?
Yeah the trusses are 24 on center.
I got the tank for 750 delivered to richmond va. Deep sea tanks were 20 percent off in the month of April. I'm from harrisonburg va. The tank sells for 950 normally.tank is gret quality,I like the bull nose plastic trim,silicone job looks great.
I did alot of research and deep sea has a great reputation. My concern is the stand I built. It's heavy duty (2) 2 by 8 s on each side sitting on (2) 2 by 6 columns. The top is pretty flat,I can stick a piece of paper through couple spots but not much,it's wood so pretty hard to get 100 percent contact.
Here's e the tank and stand..
If anyone has opinions on stand strength let me know please thanks
leveldrummer
New member
the stand looks solid! tank looks great too. as for the floor, trusses just arent as strong with those nail plates being the only thing holding them together, not to mention all the connecting boards are flat and not standing vertically which is the stronger orientation.
perosnally, to be safe, i would pull the insulation out. nail a 2x12 on each side of the truss, then brace the 2x12's to the ground with either a post or a jack.
that would give you 4 2x12s holding the weight vertically on 4 posts.
but as i said, im not a structural engineer and getting the opinion of someone more trustworthy then some dude on the internet would certainly be a safe bet.
The stand looks like you have some great carpentry skills, id love to follow a build thread of yours with lots of pictures.
that price is great. i got a quote of just over a grand in atlanta. that was just a quick quote from one of the higher priced fish stores, im confident i could find one cheaper by calling around, but 750 is a smoking deal.
If you ever sell, let me know. id be willing to drive a day and come get it and the stand
perosnally, to be safe, i would pull the insulation out. nail a 2x12 on each side of the truss, then brace the 2x12's to the ground with either a post or a jack.
that would give you 4 2x12s holding the weight vertically on 4 posts.
but as i said, im not a structural engineer and getting the opinion of someone more trustworthy then some dude on the internet would certainly be a safe bet.
The stand looks like you have some great carpentry skills, id love to follow a build thread of yours with lots of pictures.
that price is great. i got a quote of just over a grand in atlanta. that was just a quick quote from one of the higher priced fish stores, im confident i could find one cheaper by calling around, but 750 is a smoking deal.
If you ever sell, let me know. id be willing to drive a day and come get it and the stand
Addict0Reef
New member
Truss designer here.
I have run a few designs from the little information that you have given to see if the floor trusses would be overstressed with a 2000 lb load shared over two trusses centred at 5' for 5'. Not to get too technical, but if your trusses are built with the normal types of SPF lumber available I would say you would be exceeding the safe design capacity of your trusses from 30 to 240% (depending on the lumber used in the construction of the trusses). And you simply cannot just use a jack post to shore trusses. My recommendation would be to sister either one or two pieces of LVL (laminated veneered lumber) beams beside each truss, your lvl supplier will run and specify the beam for you.
Your floor framing photo is somewhat disturbing to me. Diagonal webs are needed to give the floor stiffness through triangulation. While it is okay to have one panel open, or free, of diagonal webs (for hvac runs - usually near the centre of simply supported trusses) it is not okay to have trusses without webs near its bearing points. If there are no diagonal webs near the end of the trusses as the pic indicates - all the more reason to go the lvl route.
Good luck and do post lots of pics of your build.
Edit... after reading the above post.
-Use a LVL depth 14" therefore no posts for additional support
- Shoring as described in the above posting would be acceptable too - if you are okay with multiple posts in your basement, ie just not pretty!
I have run a few designs from the little information that you have given to see if the floor trusses would be overstressed with a 2000 lb load shared over two trusses centred at 5' for 5'. Not to get too technical, but if your trusses are built with the normal types of SPF lumber available I would say you would be exceeding the safe design capacity of your trusses from 30 to 240% (depending on the lumber used in the construction of the trusses). And you simply cannot just use a jack post to shore trusses. My recommendation would be to sister either one or two pieces of LVL (laminated veneered lumber) beams beside each truss, your lvl supplier will run and specify the beam for you.
Your floor framing photo is somewhat disturbing to me. Diagonal webs are needed to give the floor stiffness through triangulation. While it is okay to have one panel open, or free, of diagonal webs (for hvac runs - usually near the centre of simply supported trusses) it is not okay to have trusses without webs near its bearing points. If there are no diagonal webs near the end of the trusses as the pic indicates - all the more reason to go the lvl route.
Good luck and do post lots of pics of your build.
Edit... after reading the above post.
-Use a LVL depth 14" therefore no posts for additional support
- Shoring as described in the above posting would be acceptable too - if you are okay with multiple posts in your basement, ie just not pretty!
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the stand looks solid! tank looks great too. as for the floor, trusses just arent as strong with those nail plates being the only thing holding them together, not to mention all the connecting boards are flat and not standing vertically which is the stronger orientation.
perosnally, to be safe, i would pull the insulation out. nail a 2x12 on each side of the truss, then brace the 2x12's to the ground with either a post or a jack.
that would give you 4 2x12s holding the weight vertically on 4 posts.
but as i said, im not a structural engineer and getting the opinion of someone more trustworthy then some dude on the internet would certainly be a safe bet.
The stand looks like you have some great carpentry skills, id love to follow a build thread of yours with lots of pictures.
that price is great. i got a quote of just over a grand in atlanta. that was just a quick quote from one of the higher priced fish stores, im confident i could find one cheaper by calling around, but 750 is a smoking deal.
If you ever sell, let me know. id be willing to drive a day and come get it and the stand
Thanks but I won't be able to get the stand out lol. That's why I had to build it In the office,wouldn't fit through the doors...wife is going to hate the mini paint booth in the office. I sprayed most trim before putting up with a lacquer paint.
I wanted to go with a 5by 2 by 2 but custom made by deep. Sea was 1500 so I went this route.
I'll start a build tread soon when I get more equipment together,thanks for all the help
There is diagonals runng with a open in center like you described. Here is more pictures of solutions,if you see something easier please let me know.or I was thinking about adding 2by4 load transfer blocks at all the V segments on the diagonals.on of my problems is the crawl space door is almost center where tank will be.
If there is a way to eliminate posts that be great. And could run LVL a little longer than 5, past tank
Thanks alot for help
Do you mean bearing walls on sides of tank
guserto4
Member
Let me premise this with "I am not yet licensed"...
I have a degree in architecture and have sat through many, many structural classes. So, let's run a quick calc on this scenario. Don't worry, I won't get into the deflection and moment diagrams as that will put everyone to sleep!
The Basics:
the tank is 190g, and by your sketch it's 60"x27" or 11.25 sq. ft.
SO
each sq. ft. of tank contains 17 gallons or ~142 lbs of water. Normally, floors are designed to carry about 150 lbs/sq. ft.- that's live and dead loads combined. At 142 lbs you are at your limit before you add the weight of the tank, the stand, the rock, the sand, critters, etc. plus you standing next to the tank and admiring it. (or working on it!)
Because you have a fairly long span at 18' and the joists are trusses and not solid wood (cheaper for construction, first off, and also lighter for their own dead load additions, but also just 2x4's so the system is weaker and the moment or bend is greater) I would suggest doing at least one of the following:
-Double up that area with additional joists (i.e. 2 more joists inside that 24" spacing). Use solid wood like 2x12"s for the additions. This takes the 1582 lbs of water weight (plus everything else) and divides that over 4 members instead of 2. Cutting half the load on existing members would be a big help. That span is still long, BUT you are not in the middle of the span and instead close to one side which is a HUGE difference in calcing out the loads imposed on the joists.
-Brace under the tank with columns to the floor to eliminate the span entirely. Make sure whatever THEY sit on is able to take the loads we are talking about, plus the weight of the columns.
There you have it. Semi-professional advice. Happy reefing!
I have a degree in architecture and have sat through many, many structural classes. So, let's run a quick calc on this scenario. Don't worry, I won't get into the deflection and moment diagrams as that will put everyone to sleep!
The Basics:
the tank is 190g, and by your sketch it's 60"x27" or 11.25 sq. ft.
SO
each sq. ft. of tank contains 17 gallons or ~142 lbs of water. Normally, floors are designed to carry about 150 lbs/sq. ft.- that's live and dead loads combined. At 142 lbs you are at your limit before you add the weight of the tank, the stand, the rock, the sand, critters, etc. plus you standing next to the tank and admiring it. (or working on it!)
Because you have a fairly long span at 18' and the joists are trusses and not solid wood (cheaper for construction, first off, and also lighter for their own dead load additions, but also just 2x4's so the system is weaker and the moment or bend is greater) I would suggest doing at least one of the following:
-Double up that area with additional joists (i.e. 2 more joists inside that 24" spacing). Use solid wood like 2x12"s for the additions. This takes the 1582 lbs of water weight (plus everything else) and divides that over 4 members instead of 2. Cutting half the load on existing members would be a big help. That span is still long, BUT you are not in the middle of the span and instead close to one side which is a HUGE difference in calcing out the loads imposed on the joists.
-Brace under the tank with columns to the floor to eliminate the span entirely. Make sure whatever THEY sit on is able to take the loads we are talking about, plus the weight of the columns.
There you have it. Semi-professional advice. Happy reefing!
