1st time plumbing...critique my plan please

[Mikey Donuts]

Hi, I'll be plumbing my system soon (150 display) and I'd like any input you guys may have on my plan. The overflow is external and the left side will be gated closed. One drain is enough to handle my return pump, but I had the builder drill two drain holes just in case I ever want a bigger return pump. The return pump is an Eheim 1262 and should provide 4x turnover for the system.

There are two return bulkheads (far left and right) that enter the tank from the top. Is there any reason why I can't plumb the return into just one of those to simplify the plumbing. I plan on using a Hydor flow deflector or something similar on the return line to dissipate the flow. Should be 600GPH or so. Any comments or suggestions are appreciated.

You guys have been a great help with my system so far.
Many thanks!

Mike

 

[eagleONE]

Why is the left side of the overflow closed?

 

[Underwaterparadise]

What other type of equipment are planning for water Movement? IMHO the Hydor flo deflectors are only good for Nano tanks. You need a ton more flow then what I see here for a 150g. I would use one of the other holes for a closed loop pump.

 

[MrMikeB]

Looks simple...which is good . I would recommend dumping all overflow into the skimmer section, and not bypass that filtration level. I would also recommend a mechanical filtration layer (filter sock?) on the overflow before getting skimmed. As far as the return, I use them as a source of water movement and split mine in half on my 150. If you can provide this with one, then go with one. It just might be a bit forceful depending on how you spread that output out.

Is 600GPH turnover going to be sufficient for what you want to run? That is approx 4x turnover per hour, which seems a little low to me for a reef system. Just something you might want to think about.

Is the overflow a hang on style or is it a part of the tank?

Congrats on making it to this level in your system!

 

[airinhere]

Just an observation. The flow going into the skimmer area looks like it could potentially create suction and draw from the refugium.

Perhaps you should run individual lines from the overflow to the refugium and the skimmer.

And make sure to include a small hole to prevent back siphoning on the return line.

4X turnover is fine for a sump and tank turnover. What are you going to do for the actual flow in your tank? Flow and turnover are very different things.

 

[Mikey Donuts]

Eagle: The left side of the overflow is closed because it's too much for my return pump. I only need one open to have the turnover I want. If I go with a bigger pump in the future, I'll plumb the left side to the sump for more total system turnover

Underwaterparadise: I plan on rocking with two vortecs. I can crank them up to 6000 GPH total if I want and turn the tank into the world's largest snow-globe. The hydor is only for the return line.

Mike: I read conflicting theories about filter socks. I guess unless you clean them out every day or so, whatever they trap tends to decompose. Some say it's better to just let the skimmer clean that stuff out of the water before it breaks down.
Would putting all of the water in the skimmer section "starve" the refugium. I've got a bubblemaster 250 rated for like 500 gallons. Will chaeto still grow if the water is over-skimmed? The overflow is an external that is built into the tank. I wanted as much real-estate inside the tank as I could get, so I had James from Envision build an integral external overflow. Thanks for the kind words as well! I need to get this tank going because the corals in my 34 are growing way too big!

airinhere: I will definitely put a hole in the return. Thanks for pointing this out! What do you mean about suction and drawing from the fuge?

I was also wondering if the line into the skimmer area need to be submerged or should I leave it a couple of inches off the surface?

 

[airinhere]

if the end of the drain in your refugium area is below the level of the water in your sump, the suction created by the water falling into your skimmer area will siphon water up and out of your refugium area and deposit it into your skimmer area. Just like a drain/fill kit to siphon water/fill water for a freshwater deluxe gravel vac kit.

I would argue to put the return lines below the surface of the water in the skimmer area and the refugium area to reduce noise and bubbles.

the issue with having one side of your overflow is purely one of personal preference. If you think it will be easier, then use only one side. Now if your return pump was too much for a single drain to compensate for.... whole other problem.

If it were me, I would use both drains on your overflow. The extra capacity is not going to have any negative impact (dependent on your overflow design) and it will make your decision to have multiple return areas easier to implement.

 

[MrMikeB]

Chaeto and other like macro algaes feed on phosphates and nitrates in the water, so a skimmer will remove biological matter that would otherwise turn into phosphates/nitrates, but I group refugiums/macro algae as part of the chemical filtration and not mechanical filtration like a skimmer - so they are providing very different functions that do not necessarily compete with each other. Given that your skimmer is not 100% efficient (although a nice model indeed), there will be a bit of bio matter that will end up as nitrates that your macro will feast on. Given some decent lighting, your chaeto will grow like mad. Filter socks or other mechanical filtration mediums are, IMO, essential. I change mine out about once a week and I do see they play an important role in removing some of the larger items that would otherwise stay lodged in the system somewhere and continue to decompose and add to the bio load of the system. If asked if they do more good than bad, I would vote to use them and have seen some good results with their use on my systems.

 

[KMP]

Mike,

This is a little different then what you have going on (as it pertains to back siphoning); however, below is a picture of what I did with my tanks return. Below the plumbing in the tank are lock line flare nozzles which are about 2.5" below the water line. When I turn my tank off, the water level drops down to the level of the overflow, then the PVC plumbing back siphons (another 2.5") until it sucks in some air through the flare nozzles and stops.

I think what airinhere means is if you do a 90 degree to your sump, it could likely draw water from your sump into the skimmer area.

 

[kdblove_99]

I change out my filter socks once a week. never an issue

 

[airinhere]

No, I meant both the suction effect I believe could happen in the sump area and the siphon effect I know would happen in the return line.

I agree about the filter socks. I change mine every week or as soon as they start overflowing.

 

[eagleONE]

I would make the second line (left side) as an emergency line. Just in case your right side gets plugged up somehow... you have a way to prevent overflowing the box

 

[Underwaterparadise]

You would have to have a serious amount of flow/pressure in the drain line to cause a reverse suction. I have used the "T" method many times but most of the sumps I install that way have the return zone in the center with the fuge and skimmer on the ends

 

[Underwaterparadise]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11145808#post11145808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eagleONE
I would make the second line (left side) as an emergency line. Just in case your right side gets plugged up somehow... you have a way to prevent overflowing the box

ditto! It's there so use it

 

[Mikey Donuts]

Thanks for all of the replies everyone. It looks like I'll throw filter socks on the drains in the skimmer and fuge sections. I'd like to keep just a little of the drain flow going into the refugium section. If I decide I don't like how that works I can always gate off the flow into the fuge. I'll also plumb the left overflow side into the right for emergency use as my return pump can't handle both lines being open. I can always adjust the flow with the gate valves. How does the drawing look?

I understand what you're talking about with fuge water being siphoned back into the skimmer section. Is this because of the venturi effect created by the water flowing straight down into the skimmer area creating a low pressure situation in the horizontal fuge line? I guess I can remedy this by keeping the open end of the fuge line slightly above the fuge water line. Any other suggestions about preventing this backflow?

How does everything else look in terms of fittings? If you guys think it's good to go, I'll order the parts tomorrow.

Thanks so much for all of your help!

 

[MrMikeB]

One more thought to consider... ensure you work physics into the equation in terms of pipe size, pressure, etc. I did not remember seeing your planned pipe sizes.

 

[eagleONE]

I'd make the left side separate from the the right side in the overflow.