2.5 gallon tank

[bascerpharm4]

Lessthanlights, referred me to a fool because I have a clownfish and goniopora in my 2.5 gallon tank. You don't call anyone a fool especially when this thread in for Nano Tanks. It's meant to be a very small aquarium and that's just what it is.

Anyhow, the clownfish is super happy. How would you know if the clownfish is happy or not? All a person can do is guess their emotional state. I'm guessing it's happy because every fish that has been caught does not have the choice to live where they choose to, so they have to accept the fact that they are actually still alive. Acceptance to life is the key to happiness.

What does a fish do when it first reaches inside a tank? It swims around stressfully but after a while, it takes in food because it has too. And it enjoys the time in the tank, even if its small.

The clownfish is enjoying the time of it's life in this 2.5 gallon and I don't care what lessthanlights said, because it's too late. I already set up the tank, put in the sand and rocks, and animals are living. Putting living objects in 2.5 gallon is not being a fool. It's a great idea, as long as the water conditions are kept optimal, along with good lighting. I have 2 (9w) fluorescent lamps and that is more than enough to keep those corals. Anymore than that will probably fry them.

Anyhow, my point is, if I'm a fool for setting up a 2.5 gallon, all you guys must be fools to own a tank because fish kept in tanks aren't happy to start off with. My clownfish has accepted the living condition I put him into and now he's happy

 

[bascerpharm4]

lessthanlights- If the animals die within a week or two from now, you can go ahead and call me a fool if you want to, but if they live more than a year or so, you shut up

 

[lessthanlights]

I know what Nano Tanks are. I've have several over the years. A 3 year old 7.5, a one year old 10, and a few 2.5 and a few 5s. From experience I know it is VERY VERY difficult to control water quality in 2.5 gallons even without fish. I believe most other reefers would agree with me that it is not ok to put a fish in a 2.5 especially when you had a 10. You are basing your decisions on what you want and think would look good rather than what is best for the fish.

 

[DJChesnutRabbit]

I commented earlier in this thread, then sat back and watched this unfold.
Dude you are a fool and I'll tell you why............

It seems you honestly think you clown is happy ?????

Ok........Try this on for size.
How would you feel about living the rest of your life in a jail cell ?
No recreational time or anything. Just sitting in a 6' x 9' cell for the rest of your life. WILL YOU BE HAPPY ?

I think not.

You need to get a grip, and stop thinking about your selfishness. Who's really happy you or the fish ?

 

[nYgel]

Seriously, the point has been made that the more "experienced" (as you like to call yourselves) reefers find it wrong to put things in a smaller tank and environment. So stop reposting complaining about it.

bascerpharm4 - Do you plan on moving the fish out when it becomes bigger? (pending on this answer will pend on which side of this I'm on, it is perfectly acceptable to use these things as temporary things, I'm doing the same for a coral tank I'm working on. Each fish is different, wish someone would understand this.)

 

[whatnot45]

We also must remember that it is just a fish.... Honestly a fish... WHO CARES if its happy Millions of fish are taken out of the ocean and killed for food, and we don't question their happiness.... why this silly little clown fish?

now ill sit back and wait for criticism.

 

[wea747]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9166809#post9166809 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by whatnot45
We also must remember that it is just a fish.... Honestly a fish... WHO CARES if its happy Millions of fish are taken out of the ocean and killed for food, and we don't question their happiness.... why this silly little clown fish?

now ill sit back and wait for criticism.

ahah good point, and he'll prob get more pleasure out of that little clown then a tuna sandwich. Plus we all go to the zoo and love to see the Lions, and Hippo's, I doubt they are at a happiness high for there life. The clown isn't at a high, but will likely be ok if the owner is responsible, and we all are willing to have animals suffer for our own benifit to a certain extent. Everyone gets so bent over a little clown, and probably thinks it over in rage as they pull throught the McDonalds drive thur for there dead cow, and chicken. I bet that chicken was so happy to bring you a satisfying chicken burger.

 

[fishyvet]

With food animal production, we want the animals to grow to market weight as quickly as possible; a broiler chicken's life span is about 21 days, a "meat cow" about 18 mo, and a dairy cow about 5 years. Animals that are stressed out ("unhappy") do not put on as much weight as quickly, are more prone to illness, and fail to meet their reproductive goals. Stress reduction and animal wellbeing is something considered when trying to meet production goals for many producers.

My point is, an animal's health and happiness are interrelated. We want our PETS to live as long as possible, right? So we need to try to provide our fish reduced stress and environmental enrichment for optimal longevity. FWIW, stress is the #1 killer of aquarium fish.

 

[nsreefer]

You must also consider that using fish and other animals for food serves a purpose- feeding people. What purpose does sticking a clownfish in little more than a drinking glass serve other that the owners' perverted enjoyment? Everyone becomes so upset when people use live fish to cycle a tank, or when someone keeps a tang in a tank which is too small, so how is this any better? It isn't. This is irresponsible, immoral and cruel. Most of the members on RC have the good sense to see this, however there are the select few who do not. People need to stop trying to justify one act of cruelty by bringing up another one. A zoo having lions and hippos in it has nothing to do with this discussion; if you have a problem with the zoo, write them a letter expressing your dissatisfaction. We're not talking about a zoo, we're talking about a home aquarium! As aquarists it is our duty to conduct ourselves responsibly. This includes providing ADEQUATE care for our charges. And as far as the "happy" clownfish, can you sell me some of the stuff you were smoking when he jumped out of the tank and had an in depth discussion with you about his current mental state? Cause that must have been triiiiipppyyyyyyy.

Maybe, just maybe us ripping on this guy for three pages will make someone else think twice before doing something like this, and if it does, it was worth it.

 

[nYgel]

I'm thinking twice about doing the same, but through that thinking i came with the conclusion that I will be putting a clwon in my 3-5.5 gallon tank upon getting it in a month. cheers

 

[Rosseau]

It's pretty hard to argue that a 15Gallon tank with a clown is really all that much better than a 2.5Gallon tank....

I don't think we personally know enough about the life of an average clown fish to asses how much space it should have. I think we are just accepting norms that have been put into place by aquarists over time. Only a few decades ago "nano" tanks didn't exist, reef tanks were usually over 50G (so i've read).
Now this was because of technological constraints, and less knowledge of aquarium reef chemistry.


So maybe in another 10 years, lots of people will be keeping clowns in bowls, like goldfish...?


Here's a little thought exercise.... Lets imagine a reef in the ocean that is ~25m deep, 9km^2 area.
(not that big of a reef at all)

Water Volume of that Reef --- 59,440,000,000 Gallons.

My Point?

20Gallons/59,440,000,000Gallons= 0.000000034%
2.5Gallons/59,440,000,000Gallons=0.0000000042%


Either way, it's not "natural".

 

[Rosseau]

I think it's fine to say that you don't think it will work, but to attack the guy seems a little much, when he's really doing the same thing we all are.. we're just defining what is ethical a little differently, and doing so based on pretty arbitrary means.

 

[abandund]

this is not a personal attack, but, how are going to control temp. fluxuations in a tank of that size? I had a 2.5, but eventually had to plumb it into my 300gal reef. I found that there was no way to control temp/nutrients/toxins...etc. I doubt the fish has enough going on in its head to know whether it is happy or not, but...here is my prediction: The acro will die, then the flowerpot. The fish could live for a while, clowns are super tough once established.

 

[Doglover_50]

I think this thread has worked through all the stages of Kohlberg's moral reasoning!

Anyone ever lived in an apartment and had a neighbor with a big dog like a dobey or a rott? And all the dog gets are 5 minute bathroom walks?

No need for any of us to analyze or split hairs and say if the apartment is x square feet. It's just wrong for the animal.

And yes, there are biological laws in regards to how much space an animal needs. It's dictated by how much area they need to feed. So when they go in a tank or a zoo, that rule goes out the window. So THEN there is the issue of how much room do they need for movement, exercise, etc...

And we're back to what size tank for what type fish. Ya don't have to analyze a great dane in an apartment, and you don't have to analyze this situation--it is NOT a gray area about what you can do with this fish.

Yes, it's a fish, so then I guess it's okay to experiment to see if it'll live!?? Moral reasoning here should pit: the cost if you turn out to be right (happy girlfriend, pat self on back?) vs. if you are not.
In reality, the result may just be a dead clownfish. And we all lose fish. It's just that this death will be to blind optimism in the face of provided wisdom proving it to ultimately be a hard headed and stupid choice.

Okay, enough lecturing, I've decided to put a snowy eel in my 12g jbj nano cube! I bought a skimmer and I can't wait!

 

[lessthanlights]

Rosseau-

You point is valid if you ONLY consider the available swimming space. You also must consider water quality. It should be obvious to most that water quality will swing much more rapildy in a 2.5 gallon versus a 20 gallon.

 

[Rosseau]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9177748#post9177748 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lessthanlights
Rosseau-

You point is valid if you ONLY consider the available swimming space. You also must consider water quality. It should be obvious to most that water quality will swing much more rapildy in a 2.5 gallon versus a 20 gallon.

I know this. I was speaking more to the idea of a larger tank being morally correct as opposed to a smaller one, assuming constant water conditions. I'm not saying anyone should try and stuff animals into small tanks.

This is why I said I think it's fine to criticise the technical difficulties in attempting something like this, but less fine to criticise the morality of it. Although... if you can't get the tech things down correctly then you certainly have more of an argument that it's "immoral" etc..

 

[lessthanlights]

ahhh ok

 

[Rosseau]

I wonder if this guy wants his thread back? ha... does he still have a tank?

 

[whatnot45]

i dont think we should give it back lets keep it lol

 

[b190again]

That line about enjoying a clownfish in a 2.5 gallon tank more than a tuna sandwich cracked me up.

I don't think its right to do what our OP has done, I think it is demonstrating a complete lack of common sense. But then again, what do I know, I'm off to put a yellow tang in a jug of lemonade and then starch my dunce cap.

Who's got the cajones to make me do otherwise?