2 dead fish in 2 days.....

[Prozium]

ok, I'm freaking out a bit here. so yesterday when I went to turn my lights on I find the fish that got me into salt water fish my lionfish(about 5-6"), dead at the bottom:sad1: so I took him out and did a 5g water change, today I turned my lights on and I look around and MY CBB(about 4") IS DEAD!!!!:sad2: my 2 favorite fish died! it doesn't make too much since to me either. neither one looked to be stressed, both were eating fine, and no singes of ich. I'm worried my 2 other fish are in danger...should I just keep with the water changes and hope for the best? or set up a temp home with fresh salt water, and get the fish out of there?

heres all the test I have, which I did today.
salinity =31ppt (1.023 s. gravity)
KH =9
CA =350
PO4 =0
NO3 =50 (old test kit not 100% on how accurate it is)
PH =7.8

tank is a 30g FOWLR that has abuot 70-90lb of LR in it and 20lb of live sand

the real kick in the pants is the 150g tank I bought for them is getting close to being ready.:sad1:

 

[Reefman29]

The Ph is way low and the nitrates are high too. The ammonia is probably high since the nitrates are high. You might want to do a 10% water change. Make sure you aren't over feeding and. Do you have an algae problem?

 

[Prozium]

yes, it's kind of a brown algae, I'll do another 5g water change. it seems my protein skimmer has stooped making bubbles....I have to see whats wrong with it.

 

[Reefman29]

Your nitrates are probably even higher then, because the brown algae is absorbing some in order to grow. You really should get an ammonia test kit, because ammonia is deadly to fish.

 

[Paulca916]

The Ph is way low and the nitrates are high too. The ammonia is probably high since the nitrates are high. You might want to do a 10% water change. Make sure you aren't over feeding and. Do you have an algae problem?

I agree on the NO3 and ammonia and PH
But I would do a 25% water change then do another one a couple days after then test again.
If its still over 30 ppm do another
So every other day untill you get it down to like 15ppm then do weekly 10%to keep it down.
The ammonia most likely is what killed them IMHO

 

[iamwrasseman]

first of all I'm not looking to argue and also dolt intend to confuse you but the ph of 7.8 is just a touch low as you are shooting for 8 and its very close . next for fish nitrates at 50 would not be a problem either . this being said Reefman is correct that you should be looking at your ammonia level as that is what will do some serious damage quickly so you need to check this asap .if you had high ammonia the fish would usually be respiring very fast and shallow so be observant and check them out .
its summer and you eed to check your temperature to be sure that it is between 76 ad 80 or very close to that .
certainly if you lost two fish in two days something is wrong and i would start looking for some things . first look for anything that may be broken ad leeching ito your tank like pumps ,thermometers or power heads . next i would look back at a few days ago and see if you may have poisoned your tank by mistake .cleaners ,perfumes,or any kind of spray including glass cleaner which contains ammonia and is very toxic . what are you feeding and could it have gotten contaminated or infected with bacteria ?have you disturbed your sand bed any more than usual ?
i would try to backtrack and see if you have done anything out of the norm as that is many times the root of the problem .
is there any visual damage on the dead fish ?
i hope that you can find your problem as many times it is very difficult to find the culprit .
best wishes Dave

 

[Reefman29]

Very important, especially now that you don't overfeed. What fish are left in the tank?

 

[Prozium]

the 2 fish left are a foxface (4.5-5") and a female bird wrasse (about 5").

I'll buy an ammonia test kit tomorrow.

 

[Underwaterparadise]

How long have you had the fish?

 

[firemansac]

i had the same problem about 1 year ago, came to find out i was basically boiling my fish, i have a 28 gal nano and didn't have a chiller, i swear by it as my water doesnt swing more than 2 degrees from 78-80 and no higher. if you don't have a chiller turn down the amount of light time and put a fan on the overflow to keep temps down until you can get a chiller. I'm definately not even close to a knowit all, just had it happen to me, since getting the chiller no more dead fish

 

[RonMidtownStomp]

That's half the fish that are in my 225 gallon display tank. And a 5% water change is only a gallon and a half. I'd do 5 gallons every 4 hours for two days.

50 ppm nitrates are deadly on their own.

 

[Prozium]

How long have you had the fish?

the lion fish since late November of last year, CBB 4 months, bird wrasse 3 months, and foxface since thanksgiving of last year.

i had the same problem about 1 year ago, came to find out i was basically boiling my fish, i have a 28 gal nano and didn't have a chiller, i swear by it as my water doesnt swing more than 2 degrees from 78-80 and no higher. if you don't have a chiller turn down the amount of light time and put a fan on the overflow to keep temps down until you can get a chiller. I'm definately not even close to a knowit all, just had it happen to me, since getting the chiller no more dead fish

I just have a 2x30w T8 fixture on it, i dont think it would heat the water much, if at all.

That's half the fish that are in my 225 gallon display tank. And a 5% water change is only a gallon and a half. I'd do 5 gallons every 4 hours for two days.

50 ppm nitrates are deadly on their own.

I plan to do a 10g water change tonight and a 5g water change every day and test every other day untell it's in check/ the fish need to be transferred to the 150g tank.

 

[iamwrasseman]

i have never considered 50ppm nitrate deadly in any way . i have been maintaning tanks for quite some time and we constantly run into tanks with nitrates higher than that and all inhabitants are fine . its the corals that dont tolerate nitrates and thats the sps corals ,most others are not effected either .yes the first thing i do is mass water changes to get the water paramiters correct but its not life or death as far as nitrates are concerned. my 12 tank fish only system has been as high as 160+ and all fish were fine . i am not saying that they are enjoying this but rather tolerate it .

 

[TripleT]

I plan to do a 10g water change tonight and a 5g water change every day and test every other day

If you get an ammonia reading above zero, I'd be more aggressive than this with the water changes.

I'd get that ammonia test kit right now, if you haven't already.

 

[RonMidtownStomp]

i have never considered 50ppm nitrate deadly in any way . i have been maintaning tanks for quite some time and we constantly run into tanks with nitrates higher than that and all inhabitants are fine . its the corals that dont tolerate nitrates and thats the sps corals ,most others are not effected either .yes the first thing i do is mass water changes to get the water paramiters correct but its not life or death as far as nitrates are concerned. my 12 tank fish only system has been as high as 160+ and all fish were fine . i am not saying that they are enjoying this but rather tolerate it .

Why are we trying to have a conversation about how much you could torture a fish before you kill it? How about 5ppm as a goal for nitrates? Mine are 3ppm.

Ron

 

[RonMidtownStomp]

Oh and it's advice like that which caused me to kill three lion fish when I started in this hobby. Strive for excellence and set goals way into the safe category and don't kill things because of unnecessary risks.

 

[Paulca916]

i have never considered 50ppm nitrate deadly in any way . i have been maintaning tanks for quite some time and we constantly run into tanks with nitrates higher than that and all inhabitants are fine . its the corals that dont tolerate nitrates and thats the sps corals ,most others are not effected either .yes the first thing i do is mass water changes to get the water paramiters correct but its not life or death as far as nitrates are concerned. my 12 tank fish only system has been as high as 160+ and all fish were fine . i am not saying that they are enjoying this but rather tolerate it .

What kind of fish can live in 160 ppm plus NO3 ?
Sorry I just can't see any fish even damsel's living at that rate of NO3

 

[RonMidtownStomp]

Wrasseman and I had a pm conversation and agree that although fish could live in a system with 150 ppm nitrates and otherwise good water conditions, it's likely an indication of other problems. The whole system needs to be considered and maintained correctly in order to keep fish healthy.

 

[Prozium]

ammonia reading is zero (0)......

 

[TripleT]

ammonia reading is zero (0)......

That's unfortunate.

Did you happen to test for nitrite too? A nitrite reading would mean that there was recently ammonia in your system.

If we rule out ammonia (and nitrite), a next likely cause would be toxins. Any cleaners being used around the tank lately? Bug sprays, air freshener, etc.? Have you had your arm in the tank? Soaps, lotions, etc.?

Any new fittings added to the system, made of brass?

Adding a Polyfilter to your tank would help remove and identify (color change) several possible toxins.

What have you been feeding the tank, and how often?

In particular, what were you feeding the Lionfish? How often?

Despite the ammonia reading of zero, I would still do a couple of larger water changes. It's still a prime candidate, and one of the safest steps to take.

How are the other fish looking and behaving?