2 fish survived plague... in QT Now what?

[fessoclown]

Hi there, I am looking for a little guidance.
Last November I had something rip through my tank killing all 10 of my fish save 2. The survivors are a Redfin Waspfish and a Flame Hawkfish. I have been trying since November to catch the Flame Hawk and last night I walked by the tank only to see the little fatherless fish inside the fishtrap he'd been ignoring for months. I got him! He's out and in a 20G QT. I can get the Wasp anytime, I could probably even scoop her out with my hand were she not a stinger. Anyway I am unsure how to proceed as I don't know exactly what killed off everything and I don't know how or why these 2 survived.

Here is some copy paste from the thread I posted back in November:

Here's a timeline. It's full of JR. mistakes and now I am learning the hard way which is a life pattern for me for sure.

I set up this tank in the beginning of Sept. after moving.
I used tonga and shelf rock that I bought from a local reefer back in July. He told me that he "may" have had ich but it was OK because I wasn't planning to set up my tank until Sept. If I kept the rock in a Brute with a heater and powerhead for that time it would be clear. I didn't double check the needed time and it was probably just shy of 72 days... about 60...

I brought a bunch of fish from my old system. RedFin Wasp, 3 PJ Cardinals, 2 clowns, 2 chromis

In Oct/Nov I bought a Flame Hawk, firefish, Midas Blenny and a hippo tang I did not QT them. These were all fro different LFS

In Nov. I bought a BOrb Anthia and a Dottyback from friends. No QT either.

Maybe 2 weeks ago the Tang developed black dots all over it. I set up a 16G tank to isolate the Tang. It took me a quite few days to catch it. It is now isolated and looking much better, I am not treating it with anything just doing 30-50% waterchange every 3 days. The tang was/is eating normally and was scratching on rocks.

At this time all the other fish in DT seemed to be OK, all eating and swimming normally.

4 days ago the firefish died. It showed no symptoms except it seemed pretty lethargic just before it died. I don't remember if it was eating or not as it never really joined the group at feeding time and would wait for food to go past it.

3 days ago the Borb died. It also looks fine, was swimming and eating normally the night before, in the morning it was sucked to the overflow.

3 days ago was the last time I saw the Dottyback. I can't find it anywhere. It's skin seemed a little rough but not white spots more like a texture but all purple.

2 days ago the clowns started showing white spots, the spots were much more visible in the anatic light. At this point I thought it was ich for sure but I wasn't sure that ich killed fish with no visible marks. The clowns were swimming erratically, maybe a little scratching.

This morning both clowns died. They didn't eat last night. They had white spots for sure but also a weird texture that's obvious in the photos.

The Midas Blenny is poking his head out from a rock, he is lethargic, I suspect he will be dead by the end of the night. ((it died after a period of heavy breathing and lethargy))

The Wasp looks fine although he did jump into the overflow a few days ago.
((The wasp survived, never showed any symptoms))

The Flame Hawk is eating and swimming normally.
((Same with the flame hawk))

The Chromis are behaving strangely, swimming fast and erratic.
((The chromis all died off they all looked pretty ragged and kind of pale))

The PJ cardinals are swimming and eating normally.
((The PJs all died about 3 weeks later they got very ugly, pale and 1 of them got a bulgy eye, they looked kind of blotchy (more than normal)They also got a bit lethargic ))

I wish I had taken more pictures. These are the pictures I had from then.

At first it appeared on my Hippo Tang but the spots looked black. The Tang scratched itself on the rocks quite a bit.

So now I have the survivors in QT, months later and I am not sure if they are carrying anything or what I should do. I know I have to leave my DT Fallow for at least 72 days and QT all new coming fish but what should I do with the Hawk and Wasp? They don't seem sick (for now)

Thanks

 

[ThRoewer]

I would say you may have had a brook or uronema outbreak (in this case I would pray it was brook as uronema can't be purged from a system with going fallow).
Velvet is also a possibility but doesn't fit precisely all the symptoms.

You may check this page to see if you recognize what your fish had: http://www.chucksaddiction.com/disease.html

 

[Deinonych]

I would say you may have had a brook or uronema outbreak (in this case I would pray it was brook as uronema can't be purged from a system with going fallow).
Velvet is also a possibility but doesn't fit precisely all the symptoms.

You may check this page to see if you recognize what your fish had: http://www.chucksaddiction.com/disease.html

+1

I would lean toward Brooklynella based on the pictures.

 

[fessoclown]

Thanks for the replies,
OK so let's assume that it was Brook. (I am also going to assume there was ich as well and do 72 days fallow to be safe)
These 2 fish have been living in the tank for 3 months after all my other fish have died and are showing absolutely no signs or symptoms of brook themselves or any other ailment. What does that mean and what ought I do?

 

[Kidd Reef]

Thanks for the replies,
OK so let's assume that it was Brook. (I am also going to assume there was ich as well and do 72 days fallow to be safe)
These 2 fish have been living in the tank for 3 months after all my other fish have died and are showing absolutely no signs or symptoms of brook themselves or any other ailment. What does that mean and what ought I do?

Cant speak on waspfish but i've read that flamehawk's are a very hardy fish and known for surviving disease outbreaks that kill everything else. When i dealt with ich my hawk was the only fish who never showed any symptoms.If we are assuming its brook i would move them to QT and treat accordingly while leaving the display tank fallow, I've never dealt with brook personally so ill leave you with a link on the subject and let the more experienced reefers here advise: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2388437

 

[ThRoewer]

It means they were strong enough to develop enough immunity against whatever you had in your system.
I've seen that at the stores around here often enough.
Ich, brook or even velvet outbreaks (or even all together at the same time) will not kill all fish or even make all sick. Some get sick, some don't. Of those that get sick some die while others survive.
Now, those survivors may or may not be carriers of the disease or parasite. So you need to treat them as if they are still infected and clean them up before putting them together with other fish.

 

[Deinonych]

it means they were strong enough to develop enough immunity against whatever you had in your system.
I've seen that at the stores around here often enough.
Ich, brook or even velvet outbreaks (or even all together at the same time) will not kill all fish or even make all sick. Some get sick, some don't. Of those that get sick some die while others survive.
Now, those survivors may or may not be carriers of the disease or parasite. So you need to treat them as if they are still infected and clean them up before putting them together with other fish.

+1

 

[fessoclown]

It's been about 2 months now. The Flame and Wasp are still in QT. I have not treated them with anything, they are eating like pigs and seem to be doing very well, have showed no signs of any sickness except the flame hawk looks a little washed out in colour in the centre of its body but I only have ambient light on the QT.

As I am coming up to the end of my fallow period I figure I should think about what to do next.

Would it be prudent to do formalin dips on these guys to treat for the possibility that they are carrying Brook but unaffected by it?

I was considering ordering NLS ich shield powder as it's active ingredient is CP and treat them in the QT for another month. That route seems easier as I have not yet been able to sourse formulin but CP is not %100 proven to affect brook from what I have read.

I have some parzipro, would it be prudent to treat with it as well?

 

[Arringar]

In my opinion it is always prudent to treat with prazipro. It is safe to use it with the NLS powder, but I have recently had a bad experience with the NLS powder. I was treating some new fish for ich in my QT system and ended up losing every fish save for 1. I am not convinced that the NLS powder wasn't partly responsible.

I combined the NLS with a hypo treatment, as I couldn't find anything to the contrary.
Initially the fish improved, the ich disappeared and everything seemed fine. Then after 7 days the fish started hiding more and acting strange, 2 days later they all died one after the other. It could have been the combination of hypo and NLS powder but it's hard to say. My other QT system is under hypo treatment only and the fish are all doing very well. Obviously correlation is not necessarily causation, but it did make me hesitant to use it again in all but the most severe circumstances.

 

[fessoclown]

Thanks for the feedback.
If I can find some actual CP I will go that route.

I am going to start with a round of Prazipro right away.