2 pumps or throttle one side?

[BinaryReef]

Hello all,

I am in the process of putting the finishing touches on a 240g system. The return section of the sump is very close to one return and about 5' (horiz.) from the other return. If you were desiging your returns would you go for 2 pumps sized accordingly to get equal flow or would you get a pump large enough to get the flow you want out of the farther return and throttle the return nearest to the pump?

We are looking at about 9-10x going through the sump and dealing with other flow via a closed loop. Thanks for your input! I can post some cad's and models if needed.

Edit: Forgot to add, 240g display and 150g sump (if full).

 

[BinaryReef]

0/25 have anything to say?

 

[FishTruck]

I am doing this too. I am planning two pumps. This will simplify pump exchanges and add major safety protection against pump failure (which typically occurs on vacation).

If one pump is pumping a little slower through the extra pipes... so what? I guess the downside is that some of your return spouts will contribute less to circulation that the others. Anything worse than that?

 

[BinaryReef]

I was planning on getting a pump large enough for the long side and then add the same pump for the other side hooked up to a gate valve to match the flow. Thanks for your input I will go with 2 pumps as planned.

 

[nyvp]

what pumps where you thinking of? I would go two darts over one barracuda they are less wattage and more flow

 

[FishTruck]

make sure to tell us which pumps you pick!

 

[BinaryReef]

Was looking at the Sequence 4300's do you think the darts will have enough pressure for eductors?

I will have total water travel lengths and head heights later today gotta go over friction loss as well for the 90's. Would you do 2x45's instead of using 90's?

 

[nyvp]

i have a seq 4200 on return
dart on CL
and 2 tunze 6100's for my 560/g dispaly with a 240 sump if that helps. it equals 22x turnover which is great.

 

[FishTruck]

Where are you going to get the eductors? The penductors look pretty good.

I think you will need more pressure. Like from and Iwaki or other pressure rated pump. You are looking to rely on your sump pumps for water movement in the tank as well as circulation through the pump... no? With eductors, this is probably the most cost effective solution.

How many nozzles do you have? Are you going to put eductors on all of them? Also, how do you plan to deal with back siphoning should one pump go down?

Ryan

 

[BinaryReef]

There are a few different designs of the eductors now, the penguin eductor ( penductor ) is a nice one. Originally the plan was just a normal setup w\o closed loop. 2 pumps to push 5-10x through the sump ( too much? ) and use vortechs to complete the flow inside the display as needed. Then I started playing around with the idea of having 2 pumps leading to eductors that would move a lot of water in the main tank while still keeping only ~10x through the sump and saving a few bucks here and there.



There are 4 returns, and the sump is designed to hold overflow water in case of an outage.

Thanks for all your input!

 

[nyvp]

I would go only as much flow as your skimmer can handle or 3-5 times your sump volume and let the powerheads do you flow. your really cant beat the flow vs wattage on a powerhead. that being said I have both as mentioned above.The reason I did that is my tank is a 3 side view and didnt like the look of powerheads on the long end that all glass.

 

[BinaryReef]

Ok I think we are good with that much going through the sump then, since each section will have a dedicated draing. One to the skimmer section and one to the fuge ( 30g section ).

I will stick with the sequence pumps unless we go with the eductors for sure. What do you think with such a narrow tank would you go with the vortechs or the eductors. If the eductors I will go with a pressure rated pump.

 

[FishTruck]

The other hitch is not too much through the fuge. You want very slow flow there so your little pods can flourish. (My first sump I ran about 900 gph through my fuge. I got some baby snails, but that's it. Now, I am running about 150 gph through it and it looks like a sea monkey party in there). Also, with too much flow, you might aggravate any microbubble problems.

I like the idea of the eductors. These will boost the flow in the tank by three to five fold versus what is going out of the sump. Lets say you are running 1000 gph out the sump, the eductors should be spitting out 3-4000 gph. That's the similar effect of adding two vortechs... without extra equipment in the tank. Although, one would have to compute the extra watts used by a pressure rated pump, versus a more efficient pump and two vortechs.

You can try them, and if they don't do the job, get the vorechs. Of course, then you might be stuck with a pressure rated pump that you otherwise don't need. Hmmmm.

I will qualify that by admitting I have not yet used eductors... I am in the planning stages of building a tank with two to four of them. As back up, I will use two to four vortechs, but, hoping the eductors will do most of the job.

I am following you into battle!

 

[FishTruck]

I like your sump design by the way. Where do returns go, in the small chamber into which the fuge spills?

 

[FishTruck]

The other consideration regarding back siphoning is for a single pump failure.

If the other return is sucking water back via siphon action, it will be working against the return pump that is still going. Maybe, even overwhelming it. I was thinking you might consider some check valves. These need to be replaced every six to 12 months IME, so planning the plumbing for easy swap outs is key. Just another .02.

 

[BinaryReef]

Union check valves then? It was already a consideration but I will add them now.

 

[FishTruck]

I like it. Did you build this sump?

 

[BinaryReef]

We are having it built. If I had the time I would for sure. But between work, building a fish room, wiring, plumbing, etc etc...we will just have it built.