240 Gallon dual Synergy Reef plumbing question

[Rue28]

I am going through hours of reading Bean Animal / Herbie / Durso threads and am struggling to find an answer to this question.

I am building a 240g 72L x 36W x 25H DT with dual synergy reef 16" overflows. The overflows will be on the 36" end (peninsula tank placement) with the view to create very good surface skimming.

Everything I am reading and the main reason for the synergy reef overflows was the "easy" application of the bean animal system.

With the six 1" outlets that those overflows create I am struggling with creating a clean plumbing plan into the sump. (My pump room requires about a six foot horizontal run to reach the sump)

I have a couple of plans.... not loving any of them right now:

Option 1 - Create an overflow manifold with 2" pipe (1" to 2" T fittings) and have that then drain into the sump. I am very concerned that this will negate the bean animal system benefits as I would mix full syphon with air mixed water....

Option 1 version 2 - Have the syphon lines (x2) join into a 1.5" pipe.... have the open lines x2 join into a 2" line for max air volume. Those lines go to the sump. (Trigger systems emerald 39 G sump....which is built for 3 1" lines.... and max that I can get in the main inlet box is 1 x 2" and 1 x 1.5") Have the emergency lines x2 remain dedicated 1" lines and drop those into the middle sump box just above the water level.

Option 2 - Drill the two overflows and join them together with a bulkhead fitting and only use three outlets. (Would this not negate the goal of having two overflows which was to maximize surface skimming?)

Option 3 - Custom build a bigger sump that can handle the 6 inlets.

Option 4 - ????

Many thanks for any comments and suggestions.

 

[dave.m]

Not sure in Opt2 why you think it would affect overflow rates. The tops of the standpipes are all below the surface level of the display tank and of the overflow boxes, no matter which method you use to drain the overflow boxes.

I don't see why you couldn't put a valve on each standpipe to control flow and then join them afterwards to reduce the number of pipes going to the sump.

The amount of water draining through the overflows is firstly affected by the rate of flow of your return pump. There are many calculators on-line to determine how much water can be handled by the various widths of pipe. These should help you figure out how much water you want to turn over from your sump (usually ~5 tank volumes per hour) and then calculate the how much water this will be and what size pipes you need to handle this rate of flow back to the sump.

Dave.M

 

[Rue28]

So if I am reading you correctly you see no issue provided I don't exceed the capacity of the larger pipe?

I was concerned about air / noise / other issues that ignorant newbies don't fully understand.
Thank you!

 

[Rue28]

I was totally trying to overthink the problem....

Found an awesome flow rate calculator online _ http://www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/civil/hazen-williams_g

This gives me the gravity fed flow rate taking into account my legth and drop which results in a capacity of 4,400 GPH with 1.5".... I plan on pumping about 2,200 GPH from the return pipe so absolutely no need to ever go as large as 2" on the return line piping.

 

[dave.m]

There's lots of ways to handle noise. You can extend a piece of rigid air tubing down the standpipe if there is sucking noise. On your return piping add a 90° bend followed by a horizontal run to eliminate noise and microbubbles entering the sump. It depends on what problems you happen to run into. There are books and web sites on all of this stuff, as well as lots of informative threads here on RC.

Dave.M

 

[maddhugan]

If I were you........

If I were you........

If I were you, then I will buy a single 36" Modular Marine overflow and that is it.
If you put two overflow box of 16" with 6 pipes then the fine tuning will be a pain every time you turn off and restart your return pump.


Synergy overflow has a removable weirs which means if your turn off your main return pump lot more water is going to drain into your sump. so 240 gallon tank drains a lot of water when the water level falls to the bottom of the weir. Does your sump has that capacity? if your sump can not accommodate that extra water then it will overflow and it will be a disaster.

Synergy makes only 16" and 20 " and nothing larger than that. Modular marine makes 36 and no removable weirs which is nice.

Also, exotic marine system also makes long boxes but they don't have teeth on weirs. Although I like it I would be afraid to have a teethless weirs since fish can get into the box.

If I were you I would buy a single 36" modular marine box, install it in the center and have two return holes and each corner of the tank.

Just my solution to this problem.

 

[dave.m]

Standpipes can be protected with eaves trough gutter guard or vinyl window screen material (also keeps snails out).

I am not familiar with the brands you mention but normally the overflow box doesn't drain all the way to the bottom, just to the tops of the drainage standpipes. Still, you are correct that the sump must be sized to handle all the drainage when the pumps are turned off.

Dave.M

 

[Adamc1303]

Like others have said, you must make sure your sump can handle the water volume in the tank when the power goes out. In addition you can probably cancel one emergency line and just plug it. If the pump to overflow ratio is working properly one emergency pipe should be enough. I am guessing that on a tank that size you will end up with one full siphon and 2 partial drains and not 2 full siphon lines.

 

[Ricardo18]

I use the same system; 2 overflow boxes ,full siphon,for a total of 6 lines going into my sump.I also have a 6 foot horizontal run.I do not have a problem with air getting trapped in the flat run.I would hesitate combining pipes if you have the choice unless you are 100% sure they can handle the flow if they are full.
If you are confident that the combined lines can handle the flow, combine the emergency line with the "trickle" line.

 

[Rue28]

Synergy makes only 16" and 20 " and nothing larger than that. Modular marine makes 36 and no removable weirs which is nice.


If I were you I would buy a single 36" modular marine box, install it in the center and have two return holes and each corner of the tank.

Just my solution to this problem.

Many thanks for the great feedback.... I can see myself making this modification.

 

[Rue28]

If you are confident that the combined lines can handle the flow, combine the emergency line with the "trickle" line.

This makes a lot of sense.... when the emergency line is in use the trickle line has gone full siphon anyway and the 2" line fully open has a flow capacity of 6,600 GPH... way more than I need so something would have had to really messed up for this to fail.

Thank you!

 

[fixmgood]

I am not sure why you need 2 boxes,seems like overkill. I have a 20" box on my 450g and it handles a huge volume of water. I was actually worried in the beginning that it was not going to be big enough.I have got it to the point where I can barely hear it.I also think that we are obsessed with moving huge volumes of water when it is not really necessary.Purely my opinion.