2nd floor tanks

[SirVilhelm]

Sorry if I am posting this in the wrong section...



Does anyone here keep their tanks on the second(3rd, 4th ect) floor of their home?

The reason I ask is I am in the market to buy a new house and I've been only looking at 1 story homes because I want to setup my new 180gal tank and don't want it crashing through the floor!

 

[HighlandReefer]

IMHO, your tank would not go crashing through the floor of upper levels unless you have wood rot, termite, wood boring beetle....etc. damages that you might not be aware of if the flooring structure is covered over on both sides. The flooring may bow from the weight if the flooring structure is not adequate. Floor coverings like tile may crack. Murphy's law always seems to catch up with aquarists and water ends up on the floor, down through the ceiling below, down on the next floor, down through the ceiling below it and ends up on the basement floor. The repair costs when this occurs can be enormous.

 

[username in use]

I have a 29 gallon tank on the second floor and have had water coming through the ceiling. I would say careful planning for a tank that size is imperative. Otherwise you'll be paying some big repair bills sooner or later.

 

[barnett8]

I have a 40B in my room on the 2nd floor of my house.

 

[Beaun]

I have a 65 gallon with 20 gallon sump on the second floor in my apartment.

 

[SirVilhelm]

I am wondering if anyone has put a 200+ gallon tank on the 2nd floor

 

[Kenmx10]

Standard construction allows for 40lb's per square foot. A 180 would be over twice the weight recommendation and could cause serious damage. I would see an engineer before you tried.

 

[HighlandReefer]

The biggest problem with hiring a structure engineer is that he will want to see the components that comprise the flooring structure you decide to place the tank on. This will require cutting into the drywall (plaster or whatever) ceiling below the area. Possibly you can cut out part of the plywood (hardwood or whatever) flooring from above to take a peak. That said, I agree with KenMx10.

There is not a cheap solution for properly placing a large tank on upper level floors that have the possibility of being inadequate for your tank size. Just because a fellow hobbyist has done this does not mean that it will be safe for you to do it. Flooring structures are not created equally.

 

[DouglasTiede]

you are all nuts! 40lbs per sq foot! So if I stand on 1 foot I will crash through the floor? I weigh 175 lbs. and I am still here!

You can figure it out by the area that your tank will take up.
180g is 72" long or 6' and 24" or 2 feet wide
so 6x2 = 12 sq feet take the weight of it full; an estimated 1700 lbs and divide it by 12 = 141 lbs per sq foot, you will be ok.

 

[HighlandReefer]

I was not paying attention when he stated 40 lbs per square foot.

I agree that it will support the aquarium in new modern construction with out any rot etc. In some modern construction they are using manufactured beams instead of solid wood joists. In this type of construction, these fabricated beams may bow some, but will support the weight. If they bow, this could present some problems.

In older construction prior to modern day codes, I won't make any comment, as I have seen some very terrible construction methods in older homes and buildings.

 

[imisky]

i have a 30g custom (3'x1'x1') in the 2nd story of my house, at one point 5g worth of water went from the 2nd floor down to the first floor ( not pretty). as suggested before some prevention method should be thought of before placing a tank on the 2nd or 3rd story

 

[Newby-Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14857775#post14857775 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DouglasTiede
you are all nuts! 40lbs per sq foot! So if I stand on 1 foot I will crash through the floor? I weigh 175 lbs. and I am still here!

You can figure it out by the area that your tank will take up.
180g is 72" long or 6' and 24" or 2 feet wide
so 6x2 = 12 sq feet take the weight of it full; an estimated 1700 lbs and divide it by 12 = 141 lbs per sq foot, you will be ok.

X2. If you really wanted to be safe I would put it on an outside wall or along a load bearing wall and try to put it across as many floor beams as you can.

 

[Jeff]

Look below at my current tank .

 

[Kenmx10]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14857775#post14857775 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DouglasTiede
you are all nuts! 40lbs per sq foot! So if I stand on 1 foot I will crash through the floor? I weigh 175 lbs. and I am still here!

You can figure it out by the area that your tank will take up.
180g is 72" long or 6' and 24" or 2 feet wide
so 6x2 = 12 sq feet take the weight of it full; an estimated 1700 lbs and divide it by 12 = 141 lbs per sq foot, you will be ok.

You wont crash through the floor because the weight is distributed. A 2000 pound tank would be a problem. The floor system could not distribute that much weight without serious deflection in the lumber and would weaken the the floor system causing serious problems.

Standard regulation for Residential Construction allows 40 lb's PSF as the maximum live load capacity. Where did you come up with 141? That would mean a 12x12 room could hold 20,304 pounds. That means I could park 3 long bed SuperDuty F
250 diesel trucks in my bedroom without any problems.

Read the second sentence here,

http://www.americandreamconsulting.com/charts/FloorJoistSpans.pdf

Your statement is not only misleading, but it is wrong. And could cause someone serious problems.

 

[Kenmx10]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14857835#post14857835 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HighlandReefer
I was not paying attention when he stated 40 lbs per square foot.

I agree that it will support the aquarium in new modern construction with out any rot etc. In some modern construction they are using manufactured beams instead of solid wood joists. In this type of construction, these fabricated beams may bow some, but will support the weight. If they bow, this could present some problems.

In older construction prior to modern day codes, I won't make any comment, as I have seen some very terrible construction methods in older homes and buildings.

What calculations did you use to agree that his/her floor system would hold a 180 tank?

Many older homes use different type construction methods(balloon type framing) which usually uses much larger dimensional lumber and can hold more weight. Todays standards use smaller size lumber to reduce lumber and cost.

Also manufactured lumber (LVL) is designed to carry more weight with less deflection than standard 2x lumber.

It is a very bad decision to suggest that one could put a 180 tank on any wooden floor system without knowing facts.

 

[HighlandReefer]

Ken,

I don't believe that I implied that it is safe to put a large aquarium on wood flooring structures. I did not mean to say that your recommendations are wrong. I have never calculated floor loads. I have left that up to structural engineers that I have worked with in the past regarding aquarium installations for a few customers. It is not my job description as a contractor to make these decisions, IMHO. Where I live, it is a county requirement to get a stamp on any construction from a lic. structural engineer. I leave the calculations & type of construction up to them for my projects, where I feel it is appropriate. Unfortunately the Washington D.C. area is one of the most litigious in the country. FWIW, it is not worth the risk for me to support an aquarium without a stamp from a lic. structural engineer. I'll let him deal with any problems that result in leaking aquariums. There is too much money tied up in a reef aquarium.

In the over 30 years that I have been doing primarily termite damage repairs (which requires the use of structural engineers to make proper determinations in many cases), I have seen a lot of exposed construction methods used in modern homes as well as quite old homes. There seems to be one common factor among the old and new. That is the actual carpenters (if you choose to call them carpenters in many cases) do not follow directions very well in many cases. This leaves unexposed construction methods questionable no matter how old they are in my mind.

I cant' remember how many times I have inspected homes with larger aquariums in them. Most have not been supported per the directions I have received by the structural engineers. When I have questioned the engineers about this fact, their reply is always pretty much the same. They make implications that these aquariums are not going to come crashing through the flooring, but sagging may occur, which will cause problems and put undo pressures on the tank's glass & seams. What are the limits of tank glass & seams, I do not know. They may in fact leak at seams or crack the glass as a result of sagging flooring after several years in this state. There have been a good number of times where I have read in the forums, that a hobbyist's tank suddenly started leaking or the glass cracked, for no known reason to them. In many cases they blame the aquarium manufacturer. I have other suspicions myself.

That said, anyone who wants to put a large aquarium on any flooring other than a concrete slab is taking a risk without having it properly inspected by a qualified person. DO YOU FEEL LUCKY is the question. :lol:

 

[HighlandReefer]

When I was referring to manufactured beams for flooring, I was talking about the newer pre-fab. flooring joists made out of 2"x3" boards which are glued together at angles so that ducts, plumbing and electrical wires can pass through easily. These type of manufactured flooring joists will deflect and are spaced normally 24" on center rather than the standard 18" on center that standard 2x whatever construction is placed. The difference in this spread could possibly mean that the actual aquarium is supported by one less flooring joist, if running parallel or perpendicular with the aquarium. This would not be a good thing to happen. This kind of construction has become quite common in my area for many years.

My final statement since hobbyists are so concerned about aquariums and their placement on wooden flooring structures and this can include concrete flooring if it cracks, settles or the aquarium is not level, is that you do this at your own risk. I am not qualified in my mind to make any decisions for you.

I would like to thank Ken for pointing out how my statements can be misinterpreted.

 

[HighlandReefer]

If you have not noticed, you do not see any structural engineers posting in this thread. I know for a fact that there are a lot of them who participate in the RC Forums. Just us dumb contractors post on this type of subject. I wonder why? :lol:

 

[jerryz]

Myth #1: "According to the building code my house can only support a maximum total load of 40 psf anywhere on the floor."

No, the 40 psf is a theoretical uniform design live load over your entire floor. You might have a whole lot more than 40 psf directly under your aquarium, but that's okay because you didn't fill your entire room with aquariums either.

Myth #2: "So then, if I fill my entire room with aquariums that weigh more than 40 psf, my floor will collapse."

No it shouldn't. I said that the 40 psf was a MINIMUM design load and I also said that it is a SAFE load. That means that your floor could be (probably is) stronger than the 40 psf minimum in many places, and it also means that the full safety factor is still there to prevent a collapse.

Myth #3: "A structural engineer designed the floor structure in my home for a live load of 40 psf."

No, probably not. First of all, your floor was probably never actually custom designed. What builder would ever want to pay a structural engineer to design something this repetitive and simple. All an experienced contractor has to know is that 2 x 8's span ?? ft then he starts using 2 x 10's. See http://www.mcvicker.com/resguide/page013b.htm (not my site!)

Myth #4: "A building inspector inspected my house or reviews calculations to make sure that homes can safely support a minimum design live load of 40 psf."

Maybe, but in many locations the building code is only concerned with public buildings. How strong you build your own private residence is of little concern to them. Of course, they still want their cash for the building permit.

 

[OCRick]

HAHA....these threads always crack me up....please get the advice from an EXPERT if you ever decide to put a 200+ gallon tank on a second floor....a tank like this will weigh well over 1,700 lbs!!!!!