2nd floor tanks

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14868933#post14868933 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OCRick
HAHA....these threads always crack me up....please get the advice from an EXPERT if you ever decide to put a 200+ gallon tank on a second floor....a tank like this will weigh well over 1,700 lbs!!!!! :)
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Well granted, but I always like to reach out to the community to see what the general census is.

If every single person on this thread said 'NO WAY DON'T DO IT!!!!!!" Then I wouldn't drop the $$$ to have someone come inspect my home. On the other hand now that I see this IS a possibility I am going to look further into it.
 
I had a 120 on a second floor for about 3 years. One day the center brace fell off. I was told by a few people that the vibrations which were caused by people running up and down may have cause the instability but that's debatable. The tank never fell through the ceiling if that answers you question lol.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14868333#post14868333 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jerryz
Myth #1: "According to the building code my house can only support a maximum total load of 40 psf anywhere on the floor."

No, the 40 psf is a theoretical uniform design live load over your entire floor. You might have a whole lot more than 40 psf directly under your aquarium, but that's okay because you didn't fill your entire room with aquariums either.

Myth #2: "So then, if I fill my entire room with aquariums that weigh more than 40 psf, my floor will collapse."

No it shouldn't. I said that the 40 psf was a MINIMUM design load and I also said that it is a SAFE load. That means that your floor could be (probably is) stronger than the 40 psf minimum in many places, and it also means that the full safety factor is still there to prevent a collapse.

Myth #3: "A structural engineer designed the floor structure in my home for a live load of 40 psf."

No, probably not. First of all, your floor was probably never actually custom designed. What builder would ever want to pay a structural engineer to design something this repetitive and simple. All an experienced contractor has to know is that 2 x 8's span ?? ft then he starts using 2 x 10's. See http://www.mcvicker.com/resguide/page013b.htm (not my site!)

Myth #4: "A building inspector inspected my house or reviews calculations to make sure that homes can safely support a minimum design live load of 40 psf."

Maybe, but in many locations the building code is only concerned with public buildings. How strong you build your own private residence is of little concern to them. Of course, they still want their cash for the building permit.
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State and federal regulations require a set of plans Stamped with an engineers seal and approval before a permit can be issued and building can begin. And the local contractor has to abide by the drawings. Many Engineers follow the progress of the construction , because by law, they are liable for the structure since they either drew the plans or signed off on the plans drawn by an architect.

A 12x12 room could hold 5760 lbs at 40psf safely. Thats alot of weight. But thats spread out over the entire floor. You can determine how many joist your tank will be overlapping, and calculate the maximum allowable capacity for those isolated joist. But there are factors that need to be considered, such as were and how the joist are supported and what size they are. What other items may be resting on those same joist , in the same room or another room sharing the same system.

Thats why I would always recommend having an engineers recommendations before adding a large tank on any wooden floor system, whether its the 1st floor or the third.
 
Sorry I misunderstood you HighlandReefer. You brought out some really good points. I never considered the stress to the tank. Only the stress to the building. Thats because for about the past 5 years Ive been mostly replacing rotten sill and floor joist. In the 50's and 60's many homes were build with the floor joist undersized and overspanded. And you can feel the floors bounce up and down when you walk across them because they lost there strength.

After thinking about what you said, I would "GUESS" that in many cases the tank would give first. After becoming unlevel and rocking. Especially if it is located near a load bearing wall. Forcing the tank to tilt away. Then add about 5 people standing in front of it looking in. Another 700 to 800 lbs.

It would be bad enough to have to replace your flooring , insulation , drywall. etc.. But to lose a $5000.00 reef tank would ruin my day! Good point.
 
Different situation (concrete floors) but I have a 200G with 75G sump in my second floor condo.

I have tried jumping up and down really hard in front of my tank a few times with all the pumps off and can't get the water to move at all.

But again, different structure. I have always been curious about just how much my floors could safely hold though. The concrete is insanely thick in my building as its a very overbuilt, industrial style building.
 
120 gallon DT

120 gallon DT

I have a 120 gallon DT on the main level with all my equipment in the basement. My house is fairly old. SPF floor joists. I ran 2X10's in the opposite direction under each side of the tank with jacks as bracing. No problems. Its an oceanic with custom stand.
 
FWIW, I have a 110 gal. aquarium stacked with rock on my main level over my basement. The basement is unfinished and I am able to see the flooring structure. I have not altered the construction of the flooring structure. As discussed earlier in this thread, this does not necessarily mean that every hobbyist can safely get away with this due to the multitude of flooring structures out there. The primary concern is not the tank falling through, but the possibility of the floor warping slightly and putting undue stress on the glass and seams. It is not unusual to hear about a hobbyist who has had a tank go down due to glass cracking or caulk seams splitting. ;)
 
I would not be comfortable with anything more than ~120 on any of the floors of the older buildings I have lived in, and thats with the tank perpendicular to joists against a load bearing wall.

Anything larger I would put bracing, especially with a 180+. Thats well over 3000 pounds with water, rock, tank, stand, sump, etc.
 
just to kind of say a little bit here. i do hardwood flooring. some of the time the jobs we do are huge and we will have up to 2000 square ft of flooring in one stack. sometimes these stacks are the higher density woods (like for instance high density strand woven bamboo). which these bundles weigh at the least 75lbs (depending on color and manufacturer) with 27.6 sq ft per box (on average) thats 5,434lbs! these piles of wood are only six ft long! so when buying a house it is really important to know when it was built, who built it, what their guide line are, and how they stand as a company. code is there for a reason but people get away with out building to code all the time. track homes are the worst especially the older you get. i am fortunate enough to live where the homes are all custom and people take great pride in their work. time and moisture can do a lot to wood as well. if you are looking at homes and it has hardwood in the area that you want the tank, the hardwood reinforces the frame work, giving you much better structure and some added insulation. if they do not have hardwood i would seriously consider installing some. that only goes for solid hardwoods though. engineered floors are not as strong. i know you do not need me to tell you these things as there are a lot of people on here with lots of opinions, and you know what you are talking about. i just thought it might help some
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15093389#post15093389 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by James77
I would not be comfortable with anything more than ~120 on any of the floors of the older buildings I have lived in, and thats with the tank perpendicular to joists against a load bearing wall.

Anything larger I would put bracing, especially with a 180+. Thats well over 3000 pounds with water, rock, tank, stand, sump, etc.
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All very good points, James77. I'm a little more conservative, and would suggest a 90 gallon or even a 75g system as a maximum.

40 psf (lbs/sq. ft.) of live load is a very common figure for residential floor design. Some construction may be well above this, while others may be below (I've seen design live loads as low as 25 psf).
Position and orientation of the tank in relation to the floor joists is very important because it determines how many joists are sharing the load. This is vital information. If you know your home's construction details, a quick call to a good structural engineer can give you a good idea of the loads your floor can safely support. In other cases a physical inspection will be necessary. If you do not know your home's construction details, then you would be foolish to place a large system without consulting first.

The statement in another post that the tank will not go crashing through the floor is optimistic and not based upon fact. If you place a tank in the worst possible location and orientation, you could well have nothing but 1/2" CDX plywood subfloor (or subfloor and a single structural member) supporting the entire load, and the results could be catastrophic... at best the floor would likely sag to the point where the tank fell over.

ANY residential wood floor construction is going to sag under the weight of a 180g system. The questions are how much will it sag, and will it sag to the point that structural damage or complete failure occurs? In order to fully answer this question, one must know the size, spacing, orientation, wood species, bridging and connection details of the joists. Without this info, you are treading on very shaky (and possibly very wet) ground.
 
PhreeBYrd,

Thanks for chiming in. I agree completely. The only other thing that you forgot to mention regarding hidden flooring structures is the common occurrence of termite damage; wood boring beetle damage; wood rot; cut joists for chases, electrical wires; HVAC & plumbing; ......... the list goes on. :D
 
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