40 Breeder Reef Build

[Darth_Tater]

So thought I'd start up a journal for my first saltwater tank. You can see the hardscape and refugium/pump sections in the attached pics. I just flooded it a week ago and am going through the endless cycling process. I started with dry rock/sand, but got some established rock/sand/algae from a local guy tearing his tank down so hoping it will go quicker.

Current specs:
40 Breeder display with screen top to keep fishes from turning crispy
20 long sump (20 inches of it for refugium with DSB and algae)
Quiet One 8000 pump (currently being the exact opposite of quiet!) as main display return and feeding the fuge
Aquactinics TX-5 light about 7 inches above the tank frame
Going to try to run without a skimmer. This may need to change if I try SPS corals down the road, but I built the return section of my sump large enough to put a skimmer in
Tunze Osmolator Nano auto top off
2x Koralia 425s for circulation. May be overkill. Hard to tell with nothing in the tank, but I have some good turbulence in the middle!

Lighting schedule:
11:00 AM - 9:00 PM 2x T5s
12:00 Noon - 8:00 PM all 5 T5s
5:30 AM - 11:30 AM and then 8:30 PM - 10:00 PM 2x LED moonlights. I'm hoping the early morning will wake the fish up enough I can feed them before going to work. Worked fine with my Serpae Tetras, but we'll see...

SG = 1.025
Temp = I dropped my thermometer the other day and broke it, so not sure. Somewhere between 75 - 80F

Current stocking plan:
Fish:
Firefish
Orange Spotted Goby
Pajama Cardinal (pair)
Yellow Clown Goby (Read I need to add this guy after some corals are in the tank, but will it be okay after the Pajama Cardinals assuming I can get a pair?)
Ocellaris Clownfish (pair)

Corals I've seen and would like to try:
Zoas
Fungia
Button
Platygyra Brain
Open Brain
Toadstool? (Too big for this tank?)
Hammer/Frogspawn? (Too aggressive for a tank this size?)

Montipora Digitata
Montipora Capricornis
Bird's Nest
Pocillopora

Feedback is appreciated! I also have some questions for those of you with more experience (esp. any that have used the TX5 light). I don't really know how much PAR this thing puts out. Will it be enough for SPS? I'd really really really like to get a clam sometime too, but I'm worried this fixture won't put out enough light. Any feedback as far as bioload with this stocking plan would also be appreciated.

I'll try to keep this thread updated. I don't have a real camera so unfortunately you'll have to deal with cell phone pics and the phone really doesn't like the light fixture.

Thanks!

 

[ViktorVaughn]

Nice aquascape, I like it quite a bit. Depending on how much flow your return pump is providing, you might not have enough flow. When I had a 40 breeder, I initially had 3 hydors, 2 425s and 1 600 which didn't provide nearly enough flow for the SPS I started keeping. I switched them out for 2 mp10s which made a complete difference both in coral growth and in tank aesthetics.

 

[moondoggy4]

The Aquactinics is a real good light the company does not make them anymore for the hobby. The light should be suffiecnt for anything that you would want to grow.

I agree with Viktor you will need more flow. Lots of good options out there and the prices are dropping.

 

[Darth_Tater]

Thanks! I spent a good week on the scape (main reason I started with dry rock). The return pump I'm estimating at between 500-600 GPH. I'm not sure since I've got the return split and am sending some to the fuge. It will be easier to tell once I get something in the tank that moves a little. Hopefully I don't need much more, I don't think I want to shell out the $$ for MP10s...

Great to hear about the light! Those clams are a big part of the reason I wanted to jump into saltwater.

 

[mandarin_goby]

Agreed, my 2 MP10s are so much better than my old Koralias in my 40b.

That scape is awesome...I'll be following, and welcome!

 

[Darth_Tater]

Thanks! Of course the Vortechs are on sale at MarineDepot right now when I can't really afford them. May have to take some out of my motorcycle budget...

I changed the stock AC fan in the TX5 light fixture today to a 12 VDC computer fan and it made a huge difference! That stupid AC fan was insanely loud. Now I just have to get the pump to be quiet and this tank will be virtually silent.

 

[Darth_Tater]

Ok, here comes the beginning of the new reefer questions that make me look stupid. So I'm well into the cycle (nitrites are pretty much 0!) and I've got nitrates (20-30 PPM). In my experience with freshwater planted, the plants took care of the nitrates for the most part. If I understand deep sand beds correctly, they have bacteria (when set up properly) that help take care of nitrates. So the question is can I just do a water change to drop nitrates and add my first fish or should I wait until I see the nitrates start dropping from the DSB in the fuge?

Second new to reefing question: at what point should I start adding a clean up crew? And those of you with 40 breeders, can you recommend some specifics and numbers?

Third new to reefing question: at what point can I start adding some coral? Want to start off with softies and/or zoas and/or some of the easier to keep LPS obviously, but I have no idea what to expect as far as bioload for them. Can I add one or two frags at the same time as the first fish, or do they have a significant enough impact on bioload that I need to treat them as a fish? And can I add corals before adding fish? The easier to keep ones should get enough energy from the lights, correct?

If I'm making this more complicated than it needs to be, I'm an engineer and can't help it!
Thanks in advance!

 

[austinlyons88]

Nice rock work

 

[Darth_Tater]

Thanks!

 

[saf1]

Nice start.

On my 40 breeder now I have 2 850's and 2 425's controlled by my ReefAngel controller. The 825's are on during the day randomly on/off 25 - 60 seconds. They shut off at 2000 and the 2 425's kick on doing similar rotations. I figured at night things are usually calm in the ocean so this gives them a break.

I'm not a huge fan of the larger power heads in the water and may eventually get the new gyre 130. We'll see.

 

[footyreefer]

If you're on a budget for better WaveMakers, then look at the jebao Rw8. They will be plenty flow for your tank. I personally have a gyre XF130 on my 40BR. Good call on T5's you can grow anything you want. I would recommend a skimmer to start, especially if your keeping corals. As far as adding coral and fish, when your params look right add 1 fish. After a couple weeks to a month and everything is still stable you can add 1 more fish and start adding coral. Start with hardy frags. Add some snails and hermits about 10 of each. Astrea and turbo snails do great. Then start adding some hardy frags. Softies and LPS to start with. Good luck and good start so far!

 

[itzonlithai]

DSB might take a while to establish anaerobic bacteria to take care of the nitrates. For now, I'd rely on water changes and a good skimmer for nutrient export

 

[mandarin_goby]

I order cleanup crew packages from Reef Cleaners couple times a year, just a small package here and there to freshen up the main crew: http://www.reefcleaners.org/

I've never been disappointed. Not a fan of hermits though, they kill my snails for their shells, even with empty shells provided for them :/ I opt for a snail-only crew, but that's just me.

 

[Darth_Tater]

Thanks all! Will definitely have to grab some snails this weekend. Nitrites are at 0 and I've got brown diatoms everywhere even with only 2 of the T5 bulbs on right now.

I'm hoping that I can squeeze a pair of MP10s into the budget after the next paycheck if the sale lasts that long. I will definitely do some more research on the RW8s. That XF130 thing looks very interesting too...

I can't do water circulation AND a skimmer right now, so I may end up waiting a couple months to add coral. Hopefully the macroalgae in the fuge will really kick in over the next few days and start sucking out nitrates. I may just end up waiting for the DSB to establish since I was originally trying to not need a skimmer. Is there anywhere online I can get a DSB "starter kit" that has a good selection of all the little critters needed for the DSB to properly function? I'm not having any luck finding a local source.

If I do end up buying a skimmer I was planning on a Reef Octopus Classic 110 Space Saver. Anyone using one?

An update on the super noisy pump, I think it's getting air trapped inside it. I've got a Herbie/Modified Bean Animal setup with one drain on full siphon and a second as emergency drain. The full siphon is pumping a bunch of tiny air bubbles into the sump which doesn't make sense to me. There is no water leaking and the only thing I can think is that maybe my bulkhead is watertight but not airtight so it's sucking air through the downpipe -> bulkhead threaded connection. Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

[saf1]

I order cleanup crew packages from Reef Cleaners couple times a year, just a small package here and there to freshen up the main crew: http://www.reefcleaners.org/

I've never been disappointed. Not a fan of hermits though, they kill my snails for their shells, even with empty shells provided for them :/ I opt for a snail-only crew, but that's just me.

Hermits are hit or miss for sure. I order from ipsf and their hermits stay small 1/4" if that and really are only scavengers. I also like snails, very good to have.

 

[saf1]

Thanks all! Will definitely have to grab some snails this weekend. Nitrites are at 0 and I've got brown diatoms everywhere even with only 2 of the T5 bulbs on right now.

I'm hoping that I can squeeze a pair of MP10s into the budget after the next paycheck if the sale lasts that long. I will definitely do some more research on the RW8s. That XF130 thing looks very interesting too...

I can't do water circulation AND a skimmer right now, so I may end up waiting a couple months to add coral. Hopefully the macroalgae in the fuge will really kick in over the next few days and start sucking out nitrates. I may just end up waiting for the DSB to establish since I was originally trying to not need a skimmer. Is there anywhere online I can get a DSB "starter kit" that has a good selection of all the little critters needed for the DSB to properly function? I'm not having any luck finding a local source.

If I do end up buying a skimmer I was planning on a Reef Octopus Classic 110 Space Saver. Anyone using one?

An update on the super noisy pump, I think it's getting air trapped inside it. I've got a Herbie/Modified Bean Animal setup with one drain on full siphon and a second as emergency drain. The full siphon is pumping a bunch of tiny air bubbles into the sump which doesn't make sense to me. There is no water leaking and the only thing I can think is that maybe my bulkhead is watertight but not airtight so it's sucking air through the downpipe -> bulkhead threaded connection. Any thoughts/suggestions?

I have a CPR back pack on mine. I normally don't run them but since I don't have a sump I wanted the skimmer to help keep the water top cleaner and this is doing the trick. My only grip with this particular skimmer is that it is loud. It does work well though.

 

[footyreefer]

If your gonna drop the money for the mp10s then I would recommend getting 1 mp40 now and then getting an mp10 when you add more coral. This allows you to run the MP40 at a lower intensity and let the pump last longer and also be able to use it on future builds.

 

[itzonlithai]

Thanks all! Will definitely have to grab some snails this weekend. Nitrites are at 0 and I've got brown diatoms everywhere even with only 2 of the T5 bulbs on right now.

I'm hoping that I can squeeze a pair of MP10s into the budget after the next paycheck if the sale lasts that long. I will definitely do some more research on the RW8s. That XF130 thing looks very interesting too...

I can't do water circulation AND a skimmer right now, so I may end up waiting a couple months to add coral. Hopefully the macroalgae in the fuge will really kick in over the next few days and start sucking out nitrates. I may just end up waiting for the DSB to establish since I was originally trying to not need a skimmer. Is there anywhere online I can get a DSB "starter kit" that has a good selection of all the little critters needed for the DSB to properly function? I'm not having any luck finding a local source.

If I do end up buying a skimmer I was planning on a Reef Octopus Classic 110 Space Saver. Anyone using one?

An update on the super noisy pump, I think it's getting air trapped inside it. I've got a Herbie/Modified Bean Animal setup with one drain on full siphon and a second as emergency drain. The full siphon is pumping a bunch of tiny air bubbles into the sump which doesn't make sense to me. There is no water leaking and the only thing I can think is that maybe my bulkhead is watertight but not airtight so it's sucking air through the downpipe -> bulkhead threaded connection. Any thoughts/suggestions?

A DSB located in the sump usually doesn't have the volume to fully support a tank on it's own but a good supplement to a filtration system, a skimmer. If you're on a budget, look into the SCA 301 skimmer. It's basically a knock off of a Bubble Magus skimmer and works well. Same with the macro algae. For it to effectively suck out nutrients, the fuge volume needs to be about the size of your display. Not saying these methods of nutrient export don't do anything, they certainly do, but in this setup they're best accompanied by a good skimmer and water changes.

 

[nmotz]

I think that skimmer will be just fine, overkill even. The SPS that you are wanting are all considered to be pretty forgiving (more so than Acropora at least). Seems like you have a decent plan, just need some more flow. Everybody tosses around ideal flow rate thresholds for different types of coral, and one that I've seen frequently recommended for SPS is a flowrate that equals 50x tank volume per hour or more. So 2000GPH for a 40B. I have two Koralia 1150s on mine and I plan on someday having some of the same types of "easy" SPS coral.

 

[Cope413]

A DSB located in the sump usually doesn't have the volume to fully support a tank on it's own but a good supplement to a filtration system, a skimmer. If you're on a budget, look into the SCA 301 skimmer. It's basically a knock off of a Bubble Magus skimmer and works well. Same with the macro algae. For it to effectively suck out nutrients, the fuge volume needs to be about the size of your display. Not saying these methods of nutrient export don't do anything, they certainly do, but in this setup they're best accompanied by a good skimmer and water changes.

I have an SCA 301 in my 40B/20g. Can't beat the value. I also run 2 wp 25s and its more than enough flow. The RW series wasnt out when I got them, but I'm sure they're also great. I have mine connected to my apex. Followed Torx's DIY for the cable. All the control of the MPs, less than half the cost.

If you're considering 2 MP10s, you could get the SCA skimmer and 2 RW8, and still have about $100 left over.

Also, I'd recommend against DSB. Way too much effort for minimal return on a 40/20. Get a couple units of seachem matrix and purigen for the sump and you're good to go. Chaeto or other macro will help with pods, but isn't enough to export much nutrient. Some GFO and GAC is always good too. Carbon dosing is easy if you're heavily stocked and struggling with N & P.

You won't have issues with that until you start adding livestock though. And the $100 you can save in equipment can buy some nice starting fish and coral.