400G nightmare! Please help

M

myinfo

New member
Hi:

Need help/advice to fix my impusive buy. For noparticular reason I changed my 180G into a fresh water plant tank and purhcase a 6'x4'x27" tank from Miracle. Actually, I don't even know what I am buying or getting :(.

They deliveries the stand to my office today and I am going to get the tank on the 25 this month. Sh$t, I have no clue what to do now? Because the tank will sit in a quite office enviorment and for ease of water change.... I decide to put all the eqiupments in the warehouseand that is 60 feet from my office. That means I have to pump the water 11 feet high to the ceiling and 60 feets across to the back. I know, I shoudn't do that but I have no choice.

The contractor will be in my office on Sunday to knock down some walls because the tank the is too big to get into my office. And they says they need to rips out my existing carpet/tile to relevel the floor. After that they need to install 2X15A wires for all potential equipments( Actually, I have nothing yet, except some outdated equipment from my old 180G).

Try to make my long story short, now what should i do now? May be I should just sell my new tank. Oh man, I don't even know how much I need to spend.

If I decide to keep the tank, what type of equipments I need to buy. I mean the equipments to handle a 400G tank. Sh$t, I havn't even conside the sump yet. So can I use a 90G? I have 2 90G I am not using now.

I welcomes any advice/comment/help/whatever to help me fix this mass.

Now, I am looking at the hugh metal stand sitting in the middle of my office. It looks more like a big sink hole for me.

Lastly, English is not my first language, so please pardon my spellings or grammers
 
If I were you I would think long and hard on continuing to set up this tank. Its a big commitment to make it look presentable and it sounds like you are hedging on buying the tank. You will need some serious plumbing and cash to set the tank up correctly.

Why not make the system a fresh water or come up with a way to run the filtration underneath the tank?
 
First you need to figgure out what are you gonna keep in the tank?? corals? fish? freshwater fish? lizzards? ect..

Then you can address equipment needs. What do you wanna keep??

-T
 
I have already changed my 180g to a fresh water, that is enough. Hosnestly salt water is much prettier.

I will use the new tank to keep mainly corals( mainly sps from my old 180G) and some fishes.
 
For a tank that large I would drop 2-3 more 15 amp circuits. Have 4-6 plugs min. on each leg. Make sure they are GFI at either the breaker or the 1st outlet...

So the sump is going to sit 60' away from the tank. That is going to be interesting. I would look more into putting everything under the stand and buying good equipment that is quiet. You would be surprised how quiet a good pump is..

You can make the sump damn near silent with a properly baffeled sump and some dursos. I have my 340 in my office area and with the exception of a small trickel of water, its dead quiet.

For internal circulation I would go with Hammerhead on an OM 8 way or 2 darts on 2 OM 4 ways... The 2 darts are more efficient a single Hammerhead and will more more water.
 
another thing did you say you are on the top floor? and its a 400g tank? can the floor hold that kind of weight??

Also some pics of your office and stand might help.


What area are you in?

California??

And welcome to REEF CENTRAL!
 
Hes not on the second floor. He just wants to run the pipe above the ceiling.

Selling the tank to me would be your best bet. :lol:
 
I think you jumped in to a huge project! I would get on top of some reeding and major planning! mabye buying a setup system is easier!
 
LOTUS50GOD

Ok, I will get the electrician to install 4X15 amp.

I aleady have a wood stand setup in the warehouse, the top shelf is 15 feet from the floor and has a 70G acrylic sump sitting there now. So the water will gravity feed back to the sump under the tank. The sump has an extar 1 inch overflow near the top connected to a drain pipe. I also have a ca reactor, kalk reactor, UV and Ozonizer all hook up. I don't want to move all this under the tank.

I also don't like closed loop and anyway Miracle said it is too late to drill any extra hole now, that the tank is almost finished. I have no idea what it means and why?


For initial equipments:

I am thinking of ordering

1 hammerhead for the 2 returns and to pump the water to the warehouse via 1 inch pvc pipe.

4 Tunze Turbelle Stream Pump - 6060 for internal water movement.

I also have a Tunze wavebox somewhere in the warehouse. Do you guys think is a good idea to use the wavebox in my new setup.

My first problem is now the skimmer, I have 2 old bracket skimmer and 1 octopus skimmer from my old 180G. I guess they won't be any good for my new tank, any suggestion on the skimmer.

Second issue, I have about 200lb live rock under cooking. It is about 10 year old, so might as well clean the rock during this tansition period. I guess I need 400 to 600 lb more according to some formular I read from some forum, 1.4 to 2 lb of rock per gallon. Live rock is really expensive, I am thinking of DIY rock, just a thought.:confused:

Third issue, lighting. I have a US Current? 6 feet mH and t5 light fixture now, but it is some noisy I use in my fresh water plant tank. I am think to buy 2 72" PFO Solaris to light the new tank. But they are about cad 3900 each. Are they worth it?

FishyBiz:
I know you are joking, but if you are serious, I can sell it to you. :lol:

BTW, can you guys show me how to post pics? Is it under attach file? May be I can post some pics once they start tearing down the wall.
 
You are not going to be able to place your sump 60 feet away and run your lines up in the ceiling.. Just can't do it.. The water has to drain to the sump and be pumped back.. Or you have to pump the water from the display and have it drain back to the tank.. I don't think your going to be able to do either of these running lines 10 feet up and 60 feet away.. Sumps are very quit if built right.. Most people move to much water through your sump.. Its not needed.. Just enough to keep your skimmer fed is fine...

If they got the metal stand in you should be able to get the tank in also with out taking down walls.. With a height of 27" if should fit through most doors if you flip it on its side or end.

As far as in should you keep the tank or not lol well that's on you.. Most people plan their systems out Before they buy the tank. I also think you will need much more power then 2 15 amp circuits for a 400 with SPS.. To give you an idea you cant even run 3 400watt mh lamps on a single 15amp circuit without loading it over 80%. I'd run atleast 2 20amp circuits if not 3 or 4..
 
I think he is saying the sump is below the tank and is going to gravity feed down to it and he is pumping the water back up to the tank which is 60' away.

at 60' though that's a lot of water in the lines. is a 70 gallon sump going to hold that much water if a pump goes out and the water back drains?

Not sure about standing the tank on its side or end, I would definitely ask the tank manufacturer about that one.

whatever you do, slow down take your time and give it a lot of thought before you proceed.

Good luck
 
My understanding of it is the sump is 60 feet away from the display in the back. You would have to either pump it from the display or drain it to a sump under the display then pump it to the sump. The pump needed to pump that much water with that much head would be louder then your CA reactor kalk reactor and a proper sump though. Your talking 70' of pipe with atleast 10' of head. Plus like Northside said the amount of water that would back flow during a power outage would be massive.. I would not trust a check valve for this.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13335732#post13335732 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by myinfo
LOTUS50GOD



I aleady have a wood stand setup in the warehouse, the top shelf is 15 feet from the floor and has a 70G acrylic sump sitting there now. So the water will gravity feed back to the sump under the tank. The sump has an extar 1 inch overflow near the top connected to a drain pipe. I also have a ca reactor, kalk reactor, UV and Ozonizer all hook up. I don't want to move all this under the tank.

Click to expand...

a whole lot of your problems will disappear if you change your mind about this.
 
This is now a new setup, this is how I pump my old 180G for the last 5 years. I already have 1 inch PVC from and 3/4' cpvc to the sump in place. Although I use a Danner Mag-Drive 1800 instead of a hammerhead.

Actually, I never though of a blackout. May be because I have a 4kv UPS hooked up with 2 thermometers and my 1800 in old system, may be that is why I haven't have any problem yet.


Probably, I should move all equipments under the tank, just it is easier to maintain those equpiment in the warehouse. You know, if water drip to the floor, who cares. But in my office, there are carpet and computer equpiments .

I know I make a illogical move. I don't think I am going to give it up now. if I l do this thing slowly and with help from this forum hopefully I can make this work.

Anyway, if it does not go well, I can always keep arowana instead. At least, I try.
 
So its not the noise you have the issue with its access for servicing the sump and reactors. So do you pump this water straight from the tank through a bulkhead or does it drain to a sump below the display then get pumped to the sump in the back? Your plumbing you have in place is not going to work with a hammer head.. It has a 1.5" outlet. There is noway it will pump that far through 3/4 CPVC. A hammer head also is a flow based pump not a pressure pump.. So its probably not the best choice for so much head either.. But neither is the mag 1800 you use now so guess it doesn't matter.

If your office has computers, carpet ect what are your plans to deal with the 400 gallons of water? I have no idea of the space its going in.. But a 400 gallon tank with that much surface area will add a lot of humidity to the room

Little odd to me your thinking of making your Own rock due to the price of LR, But your considering two 4000$$ Solaris lights lol. As far as the lights go all I can say is do a search and start reading.. The newest version seem to be much better, But I dont think I would buy them for a SPS tank.. You just can't find tanks that have been using these lights long term and have had good growth with them.. Almost every tank you find with them is brand new with store bought corals. I've yet to see an established SPS tank with nothing but LED lighting that the corals had been grown under those lights.. IMO until you can find at least a dozen people with good long term results there is just no way I'd consider them for Large tank.. If you buy a Solaris for your 65 gallon and it doesn't work out Not a huge deal. Spend 8 grand on them just to replace them in 1 or 2 years OUCH...
 
A couple suggestions that others havent mentioned. On flow, 4 6060s isnt nearly enough, even with the hammerhead returns and wavebox. You're going to need 16000 gph minimum to keep SPS in there. (thats 40x turnover). Plan on 5-6 6101s or 3-4 6201s or 5-6 vortechs. For a skimmer the best bang for your buck I think will be a Reeflo 250 with the professional kit (upgraded cup). This will run you about $1450 I believe from Reef Specialty - I think that is really the minimum you can expect to spend for a skimmer for that system. As for costs, I'd estimate another 10k in equipment, plumbing parts ($600 on plumbing alone for my 238g), etc. all told if you do the system well (altho you could spend more if you go BK). Lastly, if you are doing SPS, I would not use Solaris. IMO I have not seen an SPS tank that looks good - they will give you growth, but from what I understand both from scientific research and from what I've seen with my eyes, is that the LEDs just dont provide the spectrum needed to bring out some of the blues, purples, etc. in SPS. I would suggest going with T5s - configuration depending on the dimensions of the tank. What are the dimensions btw?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13337037#post13337037 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by myinfo



Probably, I should move all equipments under the tank, just it is easier to maintain those equpiment in the warehouse. You know, if water drip to the floor, who cares. But in my office, there are carpet and computer equpiments .

I know I make a illogical move. I don't think I am going to give it up now. if I l do this thing slowly and with help from this forum hopefully I can make this work.

Anyway, if it does not go well, I can always keep arowana instead. At least, I try.
Click to expand...

well I'm the last guy to tell ya not to do something illogical :) But you're right about one thing. Take it slow. don't commit to a plan until you've had time to kick it around a bit.

You'll figure this out. Like you said posting pictures would help. I use photobucket to host mine. It makes it real easy to post them in a forum like this one.
 
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