400G nightmare! Please help
- Thread starter myinfo
- Start date
8BALL_99
New member
I just don't know man.. I'm not sure I see how its easier to service your sump 15 feet up vs under your tank. I hear you about spilling water but still. Thats a huge display tank you have a ton of space under it. Whats that like 24 Square feet of floor space under it..
Is that the room the stand tank will stay? Or is the stand just sitting there untill the walls are removed to get it into is final spot?
I'm a little surprised there isn't a vertical support on the end of that stand.. Only 6 feet also that will put a lot of pressure on the floor. I started with 5 for my 300 and was warned by few people about it.. Enough so I added 6 more. What's the stand made out of 1.5" Square Tube?
That's going to be a Great tank though. I love the size. I've got a 190 with external overflow from Miracles waiting on my 310 to get here.. They do make great tanks. I almost went 48" wide with mine but decided to stick with 36" so I wouldn't need so much light. Plus to 48" wide is huge, it would have cut into my equipment room a little more then I'd liked.. Man 48" and 27" tall thats going to be tough to work on with only access from the front and sides.
Is that the room the stand tank will stay? Or is the stand just sitting there untill the walls are removed to get it into is final spot?
I'm a little surprised there isn't a vertical support on the end of that stand.. Only 6 feet also that will put a lot of pressure on the floor. I started with 5 for my 300 and was warned by few people about it.. Enough so I added 6 more. What's the stand made out of 1.5" Square Tube?
That's going to be a Great tank though. I love the size. I've got a 190 with external overflow from Miracles waiting on my 310 to get here.. They do make great tanks. I almost went 48" wide with mine but decided to stick with 36" so I wouldn't need so much light. Plus to 48" wide is huge, it would have cut into my equipment room a little more then I'd liked.. Man 48" and 27" tall thats going to be tough to work on with only access from the front and sides.
i don't know if this is an option, but if you are overwhelmed and still want the tank - maybe hire someone with more experience to set it up for you. i see you are in canada, will frag factory service your area??? i have a 540 gal peninsula tank that was built into a house 6 hrs away. i had an existing sps reef that i didn't want to screw up (120 gal) so i paid a company out of houston texas to set up my 540 with the equipment i requested (i ordered everything from them). they did everything like i wanted plus thought of things that i didn't think of to make it that much better. though this was much more costly, it was worth every penny. hope this works out. i know during the installation of my tank, i had times of "holy crap - should i have made this tank this big!" in the end things couldn't be better.
bgcook:
The stand is from Miracle, they told me the stand is strong enough to hold the tank. Orginally, I want to go with 36'' tall. It is just too expensive I didn't do it. Lucky me now.
The stand is in where it belong, the contractor will come this Sunday to knock dowen the walls you see at the back. I think the y will tear down 4 feet at the back and 6 feet on the right. That is where the tank will be later.
mcliffy2,8BALL_99:
Thanks for the flow tip, I will order 4 6201 instead of the 6060. For the Light, probably I will go with 6x400W MH or 3X1000W MH. Any comment?
Sometime it is very hard to believe you need to pay $5~7 /lb for rock. Especially when you need 400 to 600 lbs. Somehow when you look at toys like Solaris, it looks hightech and impressive. It is like iphone, you get to have it.
For the moist from the tank, my contractor will install a 4 inch air duct on top of the tank to draw the moist to the outside. I am planning to spend up to 20K on this tank (excluding the tank). Hopefully it is enoug!
The stand is from Miracle, they told me the stand is strong enough to hold the tank. Orginally, I want to go with 36'' tall. It is just too expensive I didn't do it. Lucky me now.
The stand is in where it belong, the contractor will come this Sunday to knock dowen the walls you see at the back. I think the y will tear down 4 feet at the back and 6 feet on the right. That is where the tank will be later.
mcliffy2,8BALL_99:
Thanks for the flow tip, I will order 4 6201 instead of the 6060. For the Light, probably I will go with 6x400W MH or 3X1000W MH. Any comment?
Sometime it is very hard to believe you need to pay $5~7 /lb for rock. Especially when you need 400 to 600 lbs. Somehow when you look at toys like Solaris, it looks hightech and impressive. It is like iphone, you get to have it.
For the moist from the tank, my contractor will install a 4 inch air duct on top of the tank to draw the moist to the outside. I am planning to spend up to 20K on this tank (excluding the tank). Hopefully it is enoug!
mcliffy2
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13339595#post13339595 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by myinfo
bgcook:
The stand is from Miracle, they told me the stand is strong enough to hold the tank. Orginally, I want to go with 36'' tall. It is just too expensive I didn't do it. Lucky me now.
The stand is in where it belong, the contractor will come this Sunday to knock dowen the walls you see at the back. I think the y will tear down 4 feet at the back and 6 feet on the right. That is where the tank will be later.
mcliffy2,8BALL_99:
Thanks for the flow tip, I will order 4 6201 instead of the 6060. For the Light, probably I will go with 6x400W MH or 3X1000W MH. Any comment?
Sometime it is very hard to believe you need to pay $5~7 /lb for rock. Especially when you need 400 to 600 lbs. Somehow when you look at toys like Solaris, it looks hightech and impressive. It is like iphone, you get to have it.
For the moist from the tank, my contractor will install a 4 inch air duct on top of the tank to draw the moist to the outside. I am planning to spend up to 20K on this tank (excluding the tank). Hopefully it is enoug!
I would suggest T5s - Go with 16x80w and that will be more than enough light for anything you want to keep, top to bottom, and half the wattage of the MHs you are suggesting. Only reason to go with MHs IMO is if you cant live without the shimmer.
My advice..... talking from someone that have put a lot of money from a beginners level.
Keep all of your cost the lowest as possible when you start. Theres tons of info to absorb . If you dont know what you are doing and relying only on random advice from users when you ask question here you will make quick impulsive decision.
When you wont know why your livestock is dying all the time and that your tank will be filled with dead squelleton even though you have spent on the latest gadgets (thrust me there is lots of them.. and they spent a lot to market them)
The cheapest way I know to keep things alive without spending tons of cash is to prepare for some way to do water changes evry 7 days without sweating it. I'm talking about 10-15% per week. That really stabilizes your tank without adding anything else to the tank.
Lights : you dont need to import the sun to your tank. too much light will kill some corals. too much light will force you to go into an chiller and problem of noise and room tempeture problems.
(maybe set yourself on keeping lps and zoantids for now then you will need no more then 1000 watt of lights)
Skimmer : get 50% to 100% of the manufactured rated size for your tank (this is were I would put the most money) cause it will determine your plumbing and size of fuge/plumbing.
Heince you dont want to changed it anytime soon. A recirculating style skimmer/needle wheel will be your best bet (easy to adjust)
Be ready to clean that skimmer evry 3-4 days... so that means a sink and some good ventilation around it. That thing smeels like **** when your inse it.
and spend for some professionnal installer to work the plumbing/sump works. thats money well spent cause spills are the most costly things that can happen.
Add livestock slowly so your system can adjust to it.
Buy your livestock from a local store that you have a good relation with the main reef keeper guy. Info with him on evry species you buy will good.
A good way to start your reef education is to read Anthony Calfo books .. they dont cost much and he gives some good non-sense advice of reef keeping.
Les
(go slow and things will be a lot more understandable and enjoyable)
Keep all of your cost the lowest as possible when you start. Theres tons of info to absorb . If you dont know what you are doing and relying only on random advice from users when you ask question here you will make quick impulsive decision.
When you wont know why your livestock is dying all the time and that your tank will be filled with dead squelleton even though you have spent on the latest gadgets (thrust me there is lots of them.. and they spent a lot to market them)
The cheapest way I know to keep things alive without spending tons of cash is to prepare for some way to do water changes evry 7 days without sweating it. I'm talking about 10-15% per week. That really stabilizes your tank without adding anything else to the tank.
Lights : you dont need to import the sun to your tank. too much light will kill some corals. too much light will force you to go into an chiller and problem of noise and room tempeture problems.
(maybe set yourself on keeping lps and zoantids for now then you will need no more then 1000 watt of lights)
Skimmer : get 50% to 100% of the manufactured rated size for your tank (this is were I would put the most money) cause it will determine your plumbing and size of fuge/plumbing.
Heince you dont want to changed it anytime soon. A recirculating style skimmer/needle wheel will be your best bet (easy to adjust)
Be ready to clean that skimmer evry 3-4 days... so that means a sink and some good ventilation around it. That thing smeels like **** when your inse it.
and spend for some professionnal installer to work the plumbing/sump works. thats money well spent cause spills are the most costly things that can happen.
Add livestock slowly so your system can adjust to it.
Buy your livestock from a local store that you have a good relation with the main reef keeper guy. Info with him on evry species you buy will good.
A good way to start your reef education is to read Anthony Calfo books .. they dont cost much and he gives some good non-sense advice of reef keeping.
Les
(go slow and things will be a lot more understandable and enjoyable)
Last edited:
Discustopia
New member
I have a 240G I put in my living room and managed to fit everything underneath. Your tank has double the space under as compared to mine and should be workable. I used a Sequence Dart pump for the return from the sump- very quiet. It took me a year before I had water in it, but thinks can go way faster if you get a pro in. If your'e near Toronto look up Shawn Willson - his stuff's amazing.
Get a non-chain fish store to work you a deal on trans-shipping your live goods like live rock, etc... He'll give you a much better deal that way, but, you get everything and if there are losses it's part of the deal. It's a bit of a risk but I save 30%.
Get a non-chain fish store to work you a deal on trans-shipping your live goods like live rock, etc... He'll give you a much better deal that way, but, you get everything and if there are losses it's part of the deal. It's a bit of a risk but I save 30%.
Reefski's
Active member
head pressure through downsizing to a 1" line will really cripple your flow. never downsize from the pump intake and outflow sizes. even increase the plumbing size to decrease head loss.
patience-
read read read before you go any further.
besides the web there are some excellent books that reefkeepers should have in their libraries. the time and money put into acquiring and reading them can and will save the lives of many.
Eric Borneman “Aquarium Corals†thank you for answering my questions on your forum.
Ron Shimek “Marine Invertebrates†and for answering my forum questions.
Scott Michael “Reef Fishes†series.
Julian Sprung and Charles J Delbeek for their series “The Reef Aquarium†vols I, II, and III, especially Vol III which is the most complete book I have seen on the science and art of setting up a reef tank.
Anthony Calfo “Coral Propagation†volume II and “Marine Invertebrates†about all things not corals without spines.
“The Conscientious Marine Aquarist†Anthony Calfo cowritten with Bob Fenner who is also a very entertaining speaker. This was my first book i got along with the first tank.
"almost any obstacle can be overcome with information; information is truly the oxygen of understanding."
Anthony Calfo
patience-
read read read before you go any further.
besides the web there are some excellent books that reefkeepers should have in their libraries. the time and money put into acquiring and reading them can and will save the lives of many.
Eric Borneman “Aquarium Corals†thank you for answering my questions on your forum.
Ron Shimek “Marine Invertebrates†and for answering my forum questions.
Scott Michael “Reef Fishes†series.
Julian Sprung and Charles J Delbeek for their series “The Reef Aquarium†vols I, II, and III, especially Vol III which is the most complete book I have seen on the science and art of setting up a reef tank.
Anthony Calfo “Coral Propagation†volume II and “Marine Invertebrates†about all things not corals without spines.
“The Conscientious Marine Aquarist†Anthony Calfo cowritten with Bob Fenner who is also a very entertaining speaker. This was my first book i got along with the first tank.
"almost any obstacle can be overcome with information; information is truly the oxygen of understanding."
Anthony Calfo
Thanks for all the tips.
Some progress.
So, they are coming back tomorrow to level the floor and put granite on. The carpenter comes today to take some measurement. He will design a cabinet for the tank and to cover the missing walls.
The stand is 32' tall and the tank is 27''. I am think of raising the stand up 6 to 8' from the floor so it is more eye level. The contractor suggests 6 concrete block or stacks 4 2X6 together. The 2x6 sounds easier but I lile the concrete idea. I wonder anyone did this before.
Some progress.
So, they are coming back tomorrow to level the floor and put granite on. The carpenter comes today to take some measurement. He will design a cabinet for the tank and to cover the missing walls.
The stand is 32' tall and the tank is 27''. I am think of raising the stand up 6 to 8' from the floor so it is more eye level. The contractor suggests 6 concrete block or stacks 4 2X6 together. The 2x6 sounds easier but I lile the concrete idea. I wonder anyone did this before.
About increasig the height ...here's my experience....I had coasters on my previous 50G (total volume 75G) & they dug into the wood unevenly..causing the tank to lose level ever so slightly...A good friend actually noticed.
With the kind of weight your tank will have on six points...I would go with concrete..
With the kind of weight your tank will have on six points...I would go with concrete..
8BALL_99
New member
I would not have the 6 feet from the stand sitting on wood.. They will sink into the wood over time.. Even on concrete that's a lot of weight.. I already posted about that on page one.. My 310 has 5 feet and is setting on a slab.. I was warned about this from a few people.. One was an engineer that took the time to write up the forces and exact safety factor.. It was only 3x if the weight was spread even over all 5 points.. Thats not bad But, It was enough for me to add 6 more feet just in case.. You are dealing with a lot more weight then me.
