50b Sumpless Mixed Reef Build!
- Thread starter BigJohnny
- Start date
Sometimes, opening a window to air out some CO2 can raise a tank's pH a bit. I'm not sure why everyone knocks API test kits. Their pH, KH, and calcium kits work fine provided a precise value isn't needed. They're always in range my Salifert kits. API Phosphate and nitrate? Now that's a different story.
BigJohnny
Active member
K yea the pH is very simple test and has been spot on in my experience. So here is an update. In addition to my pH being at 7.6 now, the alkalinity has dropped from 8.12dkh to 7.3dkh. This is a brand new tank! Nothing should consume that much alk in one day could it? There is only rock and sand. I was thinking my pH was simply an aeration issue however now that dkH has dropped as well I'm not so sure.
I am opening a window now.
BigJohnny
Active member
I dosed 2 part just to see the relation of alkalinity to pH to help determine the extent of aeration. Raised dkH by .5dkh and pH went up to 7.88. I assume this will settle once it disperses throughout the water column and stabilizes at which point I will check pH again.
I have not opened the window yet as I want to test each factor independently
I have not opened the window yet as I want to test each factor independently
BigJohnny
Active member
Before bed pH read 7.69, the rise in pH due to 2 part alkalinity was temporary. I will try to open some windows in the am and see what the effect on pH is.
BTW I have not started my cycle yet because I am about to go on a vacation, however I decided to test ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/phosphorous to see if there has been any die-off from the live sand/dry rock (extremely unlikely with dry rock obviously) or leaching of phosphorous from the dry rock.
Results:
Ammonia (Salifert): 0
Nitrite (Salifert): 0
Nitrate (Salifert): 0
Phosphorus (Hanna ULR): 7 ppb which converts to about .02 ppm phosphate
So far no significant die-off and/or leaching. Tank has only been filled for 2 days however Marco rock was "cured" in heated saltwater for 1 month prior. During that period I recorded 5-7 ppb phosphorus/.02 ppm phosphate consistently which is negligible obviously.
Now tomorrow I will decide if I will ghost feed my tank with an auto feeder while on vacation for a week or wait until I return to start my cycle. I also have Dr. Tims Ammonium Chloride and Seachem Stability however I like the idea of using my fishes' actual food source to build up the beneficial bacteria for my tank. I will probably add Seachem Stability at the end of the cycle to provide a boost before introducing my tanks first inhabitants!
My tank will be seeded with a blend of Copepods (primarily Tisbe/Tigger) and Amphipods (any recommendations on a species/source for these?).
Planned Fish List (to be added gradually):
- Pair of A. Ocellaris Clownfish
- Midas Blenny
- Chalk Bass
- Blue Gudgeon Dartfish Trio
Inverts/CUC (to be added gradually):
- 2 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
- Blue Tuxedo Urchin
- Sand Sifting Starfish
- Assortment of Snails
- Maybe Emerald Crabs and/or Hermits
I will keep everyone posted!
BTW I have not started my cycle yet because I am about to go on a vacation, however I decided to test ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/phosphorous to see if there has been any die-off from the live sand/dry rock (extremely unlikely with dry rock obviously) or leaching of phosphorous from the dry rock.
Results:
Ammonia (Salifert): 0
Nitrite (Salifert): 0
Nitrate (Salifert): 0
Phosphorus (Hanna ULR): 7 ppb which converts to about .02 ppm phosphate
So far no significant die-off and/or leaching. Tank has only been filled for 2 days however Marco rock was "cured" in heated saltwater for 1 month prior. During that period I recorded 5-7 ppb phosphorus/.02 ppm phosphate consistently which is negligible obviously.
Now tomorrow I will decide if I will ghost feed my tank with an auto feeder while on vacation for a week or wait until I return to start my cycle. I also have Dr. Tims Ammonium Chloride and Seachem Stability however I like the idea of using my fishes' actual food source to build up the beneficial bacteria for my tank. I will probably add Seachem Stability at the end of the cycle to provide a boost before introducing my tanks first inhabitants!
My tank will be seeded with a blend of Copepods (primarily Tisbe/Tigger) and Amphipods (any recommendations on a species/source for these?).
Planned Fish List (to be added gradually):
- Pair of A. Ocellaris Clownfish
- Midas Blenny
- Chalk Bass
- Blue Gudgeon Dartfish Trio
Inverts/CUC (to be added gradually):
- 2 Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
- Blue Tuxedo Urchin
- Sand Sifting Starfish
- Assortment of Snails
- Maybe Emerald Crabs and/or Hermits
I will keep everyone posted!
ur cycle is started now whether you like it or not. bacteria are everywhere, there is plenty of nutrients in your tank to sustain bacterial life.
I wouldn't go chasing numbers now, you will doom that tank before it even starts. do the cycle, let it be, step back and have some patience. throw a lil food in there, go on vacation and check the status when you get back.
I wouldn't go chasing numbers now, you will doom that tank before it even starts. do the cycle, let it be, step back and have some patience. throw a lil food in there, go on vacation and check the status when you get back.
BigJohnny
Active member
ha well thanks for your opinion but there is a significant difference between starting your cycle by simply filling a tank vs providing a significant quantifiable ammonia source. I don't consider a cycle started until a significant ammonia source is added to the aquarium.
I am hardly chasing numbers, I'm simply trying to determine the cause of my low pH. 7.6 is unacceptable. My goal is not to raise pH by any means possible, that's easy to do.
I've only tried aeration, dosed a recommended safe small dose of 2 part, and opened a window. All things you should do anyway to have a successful reef tank. I'd say I'm far from dooming the tank haha! Not quite sure what would make you think I was headed in that direction, but I do appreciate your concern.
I will take your recommendation on throwing some food in and going on vacation in to consideration, thanks!
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Happyschneider
New member
What is the pH of your RODI water? Not that it should have too much influence but maybe your RODI is not working properly and you have an acid as contamination?
I just realised that I really do not like my aquascape and I am leaving for a week of Congress tomorrow. Ah well, my tank will do fine without me
I just realised that I really do not like my aquascape and I am leaving for a week of Congress tomorrow. Ah well, my tank will do fine without me
BigJohnny
Active member
What is the pH of your RODI water? Not that it should have too much influence but maybe your RODI is not working properly and you have an acid as contamination?
I just realised that I really do not like my aquascape and I am leaving for a week of Congress tomorrow. Ah well, my tank will do fine without me
I haven't tested pH of my RODI but I will do so. R0DI is brand new so seems like a long shot, not even sure RODI water can have 0 TDS and a pH besides neutral but I have no idea! Definitely worth looking into. Thanks for the idea.
Sorry about your aquascape! Can always switch er up when you get back.
Happyschneider
New member
Oh I will, was thinking today and I think I know what is wrong 
Isaacs55
New member
Isaacs and Miguel, I know you'll like this one!:
"Reef Tank Time Machine" , you just have to set the heater to the desired date, then spill kalkwasser onto the reefkeeper while feeding and BOOM! Time travel[emoji41]
Bahahahaha! Yes!!! This totally made my day! Amazing picture of the "Reef Tank Time Machine" lol haha yea let's go back to 78! Lol
Isaacs55
New member
Oh and Johnny when I set up my 10 gallon 2 months ago my ph was relatively low also. I was at 7.6 and then a couple weeks later it was 7.8 and now it's a steady 8...idk maybe just let the tank run its course for a little while and check it in a couple weeks? Or maybe you got a bad probe from brs? I doubt it but you never know. I'm buying a ph meter off Amazon for like 20 bucks just to see how far off my api test kit is.
but the fact is once everything is put into place (mainly just the water), the cycle is already started. unless you put in a rock with a lot of organic material the cycle probably wont be big enough to cause any sort of spikes or be able to sustain a fish, no, but its still going to be there. even if you don't do anything before you go on vacation, when you come back and do 'start the cycle' you may even notice your cycle going thru the paces faster then normal.
aeration, dosing and opening a window certainly are not must-do's for a successful reef tank. if they are you might want to tell my reef its going to crash.
your falling kh and low ph are probably caused by precipitation from having all newly mixed saltwater. water that's not really in balance because salt mixes are not created to do 100% wc's but designed to supplement a tank that's already running where the elements need to be replenished. a low ph in a brand new tank is totally acceptable and in all reality normal and nothing should be done about it for best results.
BigJohnny
Active member
A cycle for all purposes I'm concerned with requires a significant ammonia source, that's the cycle I'm looking for. Like you said otherwise would likely not be enough to sustain life. I'm not gonna sit hear and debate the starting point of a cycle with you on my build thread haha. That is not why I am here. Thanks for your opinion though and let's leave it at that.
I never said aeration/dosing/opening a window were "must dos", I said they should be done for a successful reef tank. I'd say the majority would agree. That doesn't mean you can't have success otherwise, ofcourse you can. There are 100 ways to skin a cat. However I am not going to sit here and debate that either. That is not why I said it.
My point was that I'm not "chasing numbers" in any crazy fashion or heading towards the dooming of my tank in anyway. Again, thanks for your concern though. I do appreciate it [emoji106] .
Interesting theory on the salt mix precipitation in a new tank. That certainly may be a factor. However there most definitely can be other contributing factors (decaying organics lowering pH and tying up alk, high co2, acid contamination, etc) which is why I am taking harmless experimental steps to eliminate all of the factors that I can so that I understand my situation as much as possible. Many people struggle with low pH in established tanks, so I will take any steps I deem safe (and not detrimental to my cycle) in order to prevent that. Thanks again for your input, I do appreciate it!
Isaacs55
New member
Some Day 6 params, almost 1 week!
Is this the right picture?
BigJohnny
Active member
Haha oops no, but I have been having esophageal spasms recently [emoji29] . It won't let me delete the post now either haha.
Here are day 6 params:
As you can see my pH is starting to go back up, appears my cycle is even starting to happen already. Must've been the ocean direct live sand. Either that or sloppy testing [emoji6]
Didn't bother testing Ca or Alk because I was short on time but will when I get back from vacation on mon/tues.
Pumped
Here are day 6 params:
As you can see my pH is starting to go back up, appears my cycle is even starting to happen already. Must've been the ocean direct live sand. Either that or sloppy testing [emoji6]
Didn't bother testing Ca or Alk because I was short on time but will when I get back from vacation on mon/tues.
Pumped
