68 CREE LED 3 mean well 60-48p driver parallel build

[fatoldsun]

This is my plan for an LED rig using 64 LEDs (plus 4 moonlights) - on [2] 9"x12" heatsinks - well actually 4 9"x6" heatsinks arranged in 2 pairs coupled together (allowing for the center brace to not impact the lights) so 34 a side. Here is the layout:

The 4 dark blues (or blacks if you're colorblind like me) were cut off the key - they're the moonlights

"¢ 12 cool white
"¢ 8 natural white
"¢ 24 royal blue
"¢ 6blue
(B:W ratio -- 1.5:1)
"¢ 6UV
"¢ 4 green
"¢ 4red
"¢ 4 moonlights

I'm using 3 Drivers in parallel
#1 in parallel with 12 royal blues on each string

#2 will have regular blues (8), UVs (6) greens (4) and red (4) split evenly between 2 strings, so parallel with each string running 4 regular blues, 3 UVs, 2 reds and 2 greens for 11 total per string

#3 whites - parallel too "“ so 6 CW and 4 NW on each string. For 10 per string

Drivers are Meanwell ELN 60-48-Ps - I'll be controlling it with the Rapid Controller for now "“ I hope to upgrade it down the road

Stars getting set up

Heat sink 1 with 2 colors and part way through the third

All 68 stars on both heat sinks

After all the wiring I ran some tests for continuity and for shorts "“ I found two problems (documented in other threads) and I was able to fix the issues. Next step was to set up a temporary driver rig to test my work "“ here's the "œmulti-color string

Whites test

Blues test

 

[fatoldsun]

Next step was to figure out how I was going to house everything, I went through a few ideas and settled on a box - generally used to house a home security control panel - I found one cheap on eBay. In retrospect I think an old CPU case would have been a better choice. I have them laying around and there’s a provision for fans/cooling in the case – I could have made the front work for the controller too. Anyway, I had to bite the bullet and start and this is what I settled on

Here's the case with the early layout
The mounting strips are a piece of 1.5"x3" PVC trim board screwed in from the back

For the parallel wiring most of what I saw on here used small terminal blocks with jumpers. I didn’t like the jumpers so I decided to solder some Ys. It's cleaner but will be harder to swap components.

Splice - (black=neutral)

…and of course, with heat shrink (red=line)

 

[fatoldsun]

Next step was to figure out how I was going to house everything, I went through a few ideas and settled on a box - generally used to house a home security control panel - I found one cheap on eBay. In retrospect I think an old CPU case would have been a better choice. I have them laying around and there’s a provision for fans/cooling in the case – I could have made the front work for the controller too. Anyway, I had to bite the bullet and start and this is what I settled on

Here's the case with the early layout
The mounting strips are a piece of 1.5"x3" PVC trim board screwed in from the back

For the parallel wiring most of what I saw on here used small terminal blocks with jumpers. I didn’t like the jumpers so I decided to solder some Ys. It's cleaner but will be harder to swap components.

Splice - (black=neutral)

…and of course, with heat shrink (red=line)

 

[fatoldsun]

I also wanted to move stuff around (I guess I was making up for the inability for now being able to swapping components in the case) I wanted to be able to be able to take stuff down without having to pull the whole hood. I decided that hook up would be easier with a harness as opposed to individual 7 or so soderless connectors per heatsink. I went with Delco Weather Packs. I found a cheap source for these (I had planned to head to the scrap yard and pull them off auto harnesses "“ this was easier)

First step is these male/female pin hookups

6 ends for 1 full sink

And the finished product - harness hookups

I also made patch cables "“ I used irrigation control wire "“ it was 7 conductor, 18 gauge so perfect. Each heatsink is 3 channels so 6 wires, positive and negative for each channel. 7th channel is for the positive or negative for the moon (there is a separate jumper for the moon lights that connected between the two heatsinks) This was a lot cleaner than twisting together 8 feet of the individual 18 gauge wires. The irrigation cable is all housed in a single insulated cable. The only downside was that it is solid core and not stranded which is always my preference for something that is moving around. It's 18 gauge though, not like CAT-5 at 22 and it's a bit more resistant to breaks

And here's a light test "“ almost done
Full light test

I need to work on balancing the strings
Blue was close at 479/487
Mixed: 341/347
White (may need some work) : 848/777

Final step will be to build a hood to house the lights. The plan is to have full access to get in the tank for maintenance and I'd like to be able to lift up one side at a time. It will be bright to have the light on when it's "œup" but at least half of the tank will be lit. I'd also like to save some weight where I can so the base frame is aluminum.

Here's the corner "“ It's riveted and set up for the screws to hold the wood frame for the top

Full frame

 

[fatoldsun]

next step is to balance my parallel strings -
I measured across the resistors and they’re as follows:
White is 848/777
Blue is 479/487
mixed color is 341/347 (this is really stuck under 700 as this is maxed with the driver's internal pot - a wide spread for 3 drivers which are supposed to all be 750 mA)

I got lucky with the drivers since I think 2 white strings giving a total of 1625 mA (1.625 A) is good for my whites and cements the need for 1 driver there instead of 2

I will have to balance that to get it closer to 8125/8125. From what I've read a gap greater than 50mA should be addressed. I don't think the downside is all that great - has to do with temps and LED lifespan - they won't wear evenly but if I can get 4-5 years out of this rig I will be VERY happy. By then the technology will likely make all of this totally obsolete. Typical reef disease. It's not even close to hanging over the tank and I'm all ready 2 steps passed replacing it to upgrade…

 

[zachts]

You've got something fishy going on whith your dirvers. you should be reading a total current for each driver of around 1300mA. More than that suggests you should turn them down since they are only rated for 1.3 amps. it may be ok to leave it running high since the voltage draw will be much lower than the driver's maximum, but beter to be safe than have it burn out later.

the other two makes me think there is an issue with your wiring or the drivers internal pot setting. (you may need to adjust both svr 1 and svr2) voltage may be turned down on the driver limiting its output current.


balance wise you blue and color strings look just fine as is. the whites you may want to balance out to get them closer as over 100mA is a pretty large gap (check your solder and wire connections first), but since your using what look like xpgs you can't really overdrive a string on that driver so asside from one string being brigher than the other no harm would be done leaving them as is.

 

[fatoldsun]

I played with it tonight. The drivers are "P" and I'm using a "Rapid" controller - for now. I left the dimmer and pot alone and tested vf across the whites (is there a better way to do that without fear of permanent vision loss? it physically hurt my eyes-like looking at a camera flash without the relief of the flash only lasting a second)
Numbers
1a (3.0)
2a (2.94)
3a (3.1)
4a (2.97)
5a (2.98)
6a (3.09)
7a (2.97)
8a (3.13)
9a (2.92)
10a (2.98)

1b (3.04)
2b (2.94)
3b (3.06)
4b (3.07)
5b (2.94)
6b (3.0)
7b (2.95)
8b (2.99)
9b (2.99)
10b (3.0)

next I started working with the dimmer and the internal pots. using the multi tester I figured out the dimmer. The whites maxed out at 955/1025. I doubt they'll see a lot of game time at 100% but I wanted to see what they could do.
I set the RB string to max at 732/737 at 100% on the dimmer
Last I set the mixed colors at 694/720 at 100% but that's all the pot on that driver gave me. luck of the draw I guess. Also that drive never goes completely out unless the power is cut I checked with someone at Rapid and was old that's a limitation of the driver He said some use that "glow" for their moonlights. that was funny
other notes - what it powers off after about 3-5 seconds I get a flash which I'm told is the capacitors in the drivers dumping out their reserved power. I hope the fish aren't annoyed.
last note for tonight. no fans are set up yet and after an hour running on my kitchen table the hottest spot i got with the IR thermometer was 115F

 

[zachts]

Bright indeed. Easiest way is to get some help form someone. power down, place the multimeter probs, power up, take your reading, power down, repeat, without ever looking at a lit LED. the whites won't cause permantent damage unless you really stare at them, but the royal blues can! never look at them when on full power, even a reflection can be dangerous if you stare at it.

your heat is only going to be a concern for the violets, they really should be kept below 100 degrees for maximum lifespan. the rest can tolerate temperatures well over 125 witch will burn you! but the fans will be a good idea, they don't need to run very fast though, just enough to move a tiny little bit of air, you can use a fan speed controller (adjustable voltage regulator) or just a lower voltage power supply to slow them down if they are noisey at full speed.

your 100% readings still concern me as the driver should be set to only provide 650mA per string. you need to turn down the internal pot while measuring current with the dimmer set to 100%. the white string really scares me as it is running at over .6 amps over its rated maximum!


your royal blue and color strings are ballanced fine, just take current measuremnts with the dimmer on 100% and turn down the pot so you have no more than 1300mA total coming from the driver.

swap 8a with 1b and no further balancing should be required.

on a side note, you have a lot of room for expansion, at least 3-4 more LEDs could be added on each string given the voltage output your seeing from the drivers!

 

[fatoldsun]

Thank you zachts. Good call on the helper for further testing. I think I'll re-test using your method.
I'm curious about 2 things. First, why 1b? I see 8a at 3.13 as an outlier but 1b is middle pack at 3.04. Won't that just serve to swap the bias of the strings? I'm sure the answer's no but I'd like to understand why.
In the same vain, why is overdriving the drivers problematic? Is there a safety concern? Will I adversely affect PAR if I run whites too weak. An early plan was to use 4 drivers with the whites in series but I thought I wanted them powered closer to 1 amp as they would be on a single driver in series. Again I'm not doubting what you've suggested I'd just like to learn and understand why.
As for expansion with only my little 90g I though 64 LEDs were enough (4 are moon lights). Now if I can ever get the ways and means committee (i.e., my wife) to approve an upgrade I hope I've set it up to be expandable. By that time the technology will probably be obsolete.

 

[one clownfish]

I had a couple eln-60-48d running for over a year pushing 1.8 amps without any problems. I'm not saying you won't but I haven't yet. I'm more concerned with how far back the insulation is from the solder pads. You don't want any copper exposed because you will have problems down the road. You want the wire insulation and solder to be touching. I tore my entire fixture(200+ LEDs) apart and did away with the parallel strings, it worked but it was/is a pain keeping up with it. I'm switching all of them out for LDD'S, no drilling, tapping, moving or balancing, just glue/solder and your done.

 

[fatoldsun]

What are LDD'S?

 

[zachts]

So, sorry, glad you are checking my math. (I should know better than to do math in my head past 5pm :headwally: ) yes that would have only fliped the problem. 6a for 1b will give you an equal 30.03 volts on each string. again sorry about that.

the high current on the driver is only of concern to the drivers life span. It is rated to ouput 1.3 amps. So, it is pretty safe to assume that 1.3 amps is the hightest long term current that the electronic parts in the driver can with stand. It may actually be fine to run it higher than rated if it'll go higher(as yours does) but without knowing the exact specs on all the internal componets it is best to assume that the manufacturer knows best and put that rating on there knowing that it would run at that setting many years.

chances are that running higher current and lower voltage will be ok with adequate cooling of the driver, but it is a little bit of a gamble in that box with the lid closed, worst case the driver stops working someday. if you don't really need the whites on full power (and you probably won't) turning them down will just be assurences for the long term operation of the setup.

on expandablility you are set up very well. you have extra slots for additional LEDs on the heatsink as well as additional power cappablity from you drivers. in the short term that means you can add a few additional LEDs to play with the end color if you so choose, or just get a little extra Par some day if you need it for a larger tank. I'd expect that 2-3 years from now LEDs will be twice as efficent and twice as powerfull if not more than they are today, so.......you're pretty well future proofed there.

LDDs are just a different type driver, dirver is separate from the power supply. http://www.powergatellc.com/led-driver-dc-dc-converters.html

 

[fatoldsun]

ok, I'm embarrassed... so I followed your advice and got a helper to turn the light on/off so I could set the probes and look away. Well, here's the embarrassing part. uh, my numbers are WAY different. amazing what you can do when yo don't see stars - i have to admit I had trouble reading the multi tester the other night. Ok, for starters I turned the driver pot down - I know this shouldn't matter for this test but for sake of being complete they are 805/744. ok, so try not to laugh or just look at these and pretend the post from the other night isn't there...
1a (3.05)CW
2a (2.98)NW
3a (3.15)CW
4a (3.01)CW
5a (3.03)NW
6a (3.15)CW
7a (3.02)NW
8a (3.18)CW
9a (2.97)NW
10a (3.02)CW

1b (3.08)CW
2b (2.97)NW
3b (3.09)CW
4b (3.12)CW
5b (2.98)NW
6b (3.05)CW
7b (2.98)NW
8b (3.04)CW
9b (3.03)NW
10b (3.04)CW
I set up a spreadsheet since I definitely don't trust my math. I got A:30.56 and B:30:38. I would like to keep my swaps within cool white (interesting that they have the swings and they are the only non-rapids n the build. Anyway if I swap A8 (3.18) for B10 (3.04) the totals wouldn't be that different, new totals would be A:30.42, B30.52. the spread would drop from 18 to 10 - is that enough?

 

[fatoldsun]

I'm not sure if this is how it works but using the spreadsheet I found the difference between each pair. Ttal difference is 18 so I found two that totaled 9 positive imbalance and swapped them on the spreadsheet. if I swap A5 with B5 and A7 with B7 I end up with an even 30.47. Is that how it works? everything else I read said swap a high on one string with a low on the other These 4 are pretty middle ground, just that they accomplish a balanced result...

 

[zachts]

yep, that's how it works, you just need to move .09 volts from one string to the other so if you swaped 8a for 3b that would only be one swap if my mathematical skills are working this time

no laughing here, I would hazard a guess that if you measured again you'd get slightly different results still. Just make a swap based on this, fire it up and see if further fiddleing is required. often times it seems people need to do a couple "swap, measure and repeat", to get things ballanced. (I cheat and build current mirrors because I'm lazy and would rather solder an extra few compontents once and forget about it........)

 

[fatoldsun]

I got impatient. I figured I could have solved with 1 but I decided to give it a shot. I'm at 766/785 now. Hopefully that's a more acceptable range. Re-soldering is a pain. I lost a whole string and found I knocked one in another string loose. Not saying much for the quality of my joints. I can say its a UV I got used and it was in bad shape. I had to re- solder it to the star. It was also a short I found during my initial testing so it's already been repaired. The solder is never as strong after the pad's been used. And that's why I don't want change them again for balancing unless its really reccomended strongly.
Current mirrors are a little over my head at the moment. I guess I should have invested the time into learning how to do that once I went to this trouble but before I started I was sufficiently intimidated by parallel - next time perhaps. Thanks SO much for all of your help. I was totally off base with how I thought the balancing process worked and you set me straight. Thank you!!!
Now, do you have as much knowledge about lenses ?

 

[bdevillier]

what are the little grey resistor looking things you have wired into your array? i thought i read somewhere that when wiring in parallel you need you put fuses inline to prevent frying your fixture from loosing one leg and over driving the other. is that what that is?

 

[fatoldsun]

Gray are the resistors. The fuses are the smaller green ones which are a little harder to spot in these pics

 

[zachts]

Now, do you have as much knowledge about lenses ?

what are the dimensions of your tank? particuallry how deep is it? also how is the rock work arranged?

Most likely you won't need optics on your tank. Unless you mount the fixtures more than ~8" off the water, but even then maybe not except to limit how much light spills into the room.

For example, I have a frag tank (standard 55) that has one side lit with just 14 leds no optics and can grow sps on the upper rack with the fixture hanging about 6" off the water, lps and softies do great at the bottom. (6V, 2RB, 2B, 2NW, 2WW, all clustered together and run at ~680mA)

 

[bdevillier]

Gray are the resistors. The fuses are the smaller green ones which are a little harder to spot in these pics

what are you using the resistors for? i thought that the driver takes care of that? so then there are 2 resistors back to back on each leg?

edit*- maybe what im seeing is a grey resistor followed by a green fuse?