72 F is to HOT for a tropical reef tank

[badgers]

so is 84 F degress to low? should I shoot for 88 F.
I still think that I am going to raise my temp slowly if it is all the same to you.
I am not smart. I am smart enough to cheat. And I cheat by coping someone smarter. I don't sit next to mother nature but she is smart so tell me what she keeps here tanks at and I will copy that.

This is the whole reason I started this thread. I have some books that state temps must be kept under 82F. I was sort of freakn when people put up the 84F numbers but if that is the way nature does it, who am I to argue? nobody thats who I will stick with cheating!
thank you for your time and have a good day
is 35ppt = 1.023 at 78 F?
thanks

 

[ClintY]

Nothing can compare to diving experience...
That explains why the corals in my tank expand more during the hot summer months with 90+ temperatures.

Why else do we call them "tropical" reefs.

 

[PLS]

Hello all,

My tanks float around a daily average high of 86F and a low of about 82F. With the oddball high hitting 88F and 80F as the low. Salinity averages around 35o/oo (these are based on the last time I checked that is).

I personally got out of the numbers game along time ago. I used to be one of those test everything types but just got tired of all that rubbish. I chose to spend more time in front of my tanks then in them, if you know what I mean.

Keep it resonable and your tank mates will let you know if they are happy or not.

Clint I would be careful with temps over 90F I remember reading something about SPS bleaching when sustained at temps over 90F for extended periods. I can't recall where I read this, but it was about some study done in Australia. If I remember correctly, temps in the 90's for a day or two were not the problem, it was sustaining that temp or hitting those temps too regularly that was the problem.

Maybe Ron could enlighten us a little more on this.

Fox, surface temp is a relative term. In otherwords, the closer to the equator the greater the depth the surface temp will descend. Dive around Florida and you will get a different story. Alaska would be a totally different story altogether.

Cheers,
PLS

Nice new place to hang out and read, thanks guys (LarryM, et al.)

 

[golfish]

76-78 works for me as you can see

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http://members.xoom.com/golfish1/reef.htm

 

[Reef Junkie]

Ron,
I've met you before in the past, even though you may not remember me. I had a few fragments of A. formosa from your tank that were quickly consumed by RTN in my tank. Now that you mention your tanks temp I can see where some extreme stress came into play. My reef is running at 78 deg. It went up to 83 this past summer. Which at that time, I had a high mortality rate with new imports. I assumed the LFS temp was extremely lower compared to mine. Which would lead me to think that is why the coral contracted RNT. Even though you say some of the water temp fluxuations are extreme in one days time on a natural reef. It's during the summer months that I've had a problem introducing new corals. Most of the time they get introduced and die. There are a few occasions that the corals lived. I'm not just talking about hard to keep corals either. I can understand why a small colony of A loripes might have a hard time acclimating, but Euphyllia anchora? They are very hardy.
Anyhow, I would really appreciate any experience you have on RTN and temp fluxuations.
Thanks,
R.J.


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http://www.homestead.com/reefjunkie/highenergy.html

 

[rshimek]

Hi,

I think you are confusing me with someone else. I have not, to the best of my memory, ever had any Acropora formosa in my tank, nor have I given out fragments.

RTN seems to me to be a series of symptoms in search of a cause, and I have seen no clear data indicating conclusively any causative agent except perhaps overcrowding stress.

There are no experimental data on this series of symptoms, and correlations with any conditions are pretty useless. As my old statistics prof used to say, "Correlation does not imply causation."

So.. I will beg off on this one.

Cheers, Ron

 

[MLP]

Hi Everyone,

Well I have run my tanks at 82+ for several years now. My heaters are set for 82 and where it goes from there due to lighting or ambient room temp. is where it goes, though I try and keep it below 86. I have heard many an argument that in our closed systems it is harder to maintain proper O2 at these temps (one of the arguments many use to justify lower temps) however, I have never experienced this.

Several here in this thread use to be ones that posed this argument to me before and maintained thier tanks at the lower temps. (I see they have come around

) I have always stood my ground on this, and had the luxuory over the last almont 2 years now of being able to give them a link to Ron Shimek's article that is archived at AF. I also give them a link to the rebuttle by R. Harker just so they can make their own assesment.

For any that haven't read these articles here are links to them:

<A HREF="http://www.aquariumfish.com/fish/aqfm/1997/nov/features/1/default.asp" TARGET=_blank>What are Natural Reef Salinities and Temperaturesââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦Reallyââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦
and Does It Matter? by RONALD SHIMEK Ph.D. </A>

Reef Tank Temperatures ââ"šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Â Another View by Richard Harker

As for Salinity, I maintain mine at 34ppt (1.025 S.G.). This allows for a little climb due to evaporation with no worries. I have maintained this salinity since reading Ron's article back in Nov. of 97'. Again with no problems. I have had many of LFS go off on me after learning this, oh well someday maybe they'll figure it out, but I doubt it. LOL I have never run my tanks in the hyposaline situation, so I can not comment on that.

There are still many if not most out there that maintain their tanks at the lower temps (I think this is a carry over from the FW days, personally) and at the lower salinity. Furthermore, thye do this with success. That does not necessarly mean that it is right.

So your research, try it for yourself, and see what your outcome is.

Good Luck

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Happy Reefing,
Michael
mlp@aquariacentral.com

Learn form the mistakes of others, Life is too short to learn them all for yourself!

 

[FOX]

Duh, I don't know why I didn't realise that. I guess I didn't think about the fact that fish were cold blooded. I feel slightly stupid now.

FOX

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members.xoom.com/KoryFox/index.htm

 

[ClintY]

80 to 86 oF. Is that really Ron Shimek? Wow! This is where I'll be for all my reef discussions!

 

[The Shaman]

mlp - Thank you for providing those links. I try to learn as much as I can about the animals that I keep and the environment they live in so that I can, hopefully, provide them w/ a long & healthy life. As a novice reefer, I have learned much, so far, but I still manage to miss alot of info. that's out there. Ron Shimek's article was one that I had missed.

I've been told, and have seen tanks from those that come from both 'schools' of thought on optimum temp. and salinity, and are successful. As a novice, this is one of the areas of reefkeeping that has caused me alot of confusion. The LFS that I buy my livestock at keep their tanks around 76-78*F, and everything looks very healthy. However, I've read that reefs stay generally in the mid 80's. So, I chose the 'middle of the road' and keep my tank around 78-82*F. Ron's article, and rebuttal to Richard Harker, has made me reconsider this practice. Perhaps I should've gone w/ my initial feelings about trying to re-create the normal conditions of the reefs where my livestock typically comes from.

Thanks again for the links, and thanks to everyone who responded w/ thier practices and why.

The Shaman

 

[Jawfish]

I keep mine at 79-80F. I think you can be successful in both the 70's and low 80's, but you want to limit how much variation you have during the day. Eliminate as much stress as you can.

 

[golfish]

well,well,well!!!it seems that I have been wrong again.I have always kept my reef at 76-78 and had good results (except with the Elegance coral please read my "another one bites the dust" thread.
Yesterday I raised my temp to 82...I did not mean to raise it that much so fast but I set my heaters and forgot all about it until the morning..my Elegance seems to be improving.

so heres a question for all.....should I expect a algae bloom????
TIA

Mark

 

[Reef Junkie]

Ron,
You are correct. I did confuse you with someone else. I'm sorry...my bad.
Later,
R.j.

 

[Larry M]

golfish--I really hope that helps your elegance. Keep us informed on it's progress.


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Larry M

Visit Reef Central's Home Site at:
www.reefcentral.com

 

[Heinrich]

I'm a rather practical person when it comes to tank temp. I simply set the heater at around 78. If for some reason it sould get really chilly this would prevent a drop in temp. Otherwise the lights on the tank and refugia will keep the tank around 80-84. Fluctuations are seasonal and dependent mostly on ambient temp and pressure etc. I believe this will generally give a nice steady fluctuation such as in the wild and with a good timer and lunar phase simulator seems to help induce spawning in Centropyges and actually quite a few corals as well.
There is no consistant temp on the reef so shooting for a ridgit temp seems to be a huge waste of electricity IMO.
Then again some fish do react much better to lower temps than others. A lot of aggerssion in some fish especially in H. passer comes from being kept at temp much higher than their natural enviroment. I've seen two H. passer that became mere lambs of their aggressive selves when a chiller was installed. And the temp kept between 74-75F.
But if your trying to keep a show tank in a store little "tricks" to keep a "respectable" tank are sometimes necessary. Lower temps really help with less algae growth especially cyano and with less hyper and aggressive fish. Also protein skimmers tend to produce slightly better and more stable foam along with more oxygen in the water. But unless you are needing to inspire awe and show what you can pack into a tank and having a impressive display similar to what others might want, I suggest to keep the temp at higher levels and subject your fish to less stress through overcrowding and lower than natural temp.
We are hobbyist and should be concerned in providing a suitable enviroment for our animals and not try to impress potential shoppers. Although the use of a chiller can really be a good tool for anyone doing maintenance and has customers that are verry particular about what they want and that reallyu don't care what they spend.
Corals all seem to do much better at temps around 86 and salnity around 35-40ppt, IMO. Especially any Red Sea organisms. Duh!
But it will probably take a while for people to catch on.
93! Heinrich

 

[badgers]

has anyone ever considered heating the tank the way people do for freshwater planted tanks?
I have seen the use of heating cables burried in the substrate.
thank you for your time and have a good day
what does "93! Heinrich" mean?

 

[LarryB]

I keep my 45 at 83-84 F. I notice that the couple of times when my temp went up to 88 or 90 that the corals didn't look as good (all softies). The fish and inverts didn't look any different. On the other hand one time when I changed the wanter the temp took a dip to 78. The next day my sailfin tang had ich. No additions to the tank for the ich problem, only the temp fluctuation. In three days he was clear. No reoutbrake of Ich for two months.

[This message has been edited by LarryB (edited 10-12-1999).]

 

[Jawfish]

rshimek & Heinrich

Interesting. I'm trying to understand one common thread I may be reading into your posts. Just because there may be fluctuations in the wild, does that imply we should try to recreate them? Maybe I've got El Nino on the brain, but aren't changes in temperature just a source of stress for the organisms?

(and I'm suprised the daily changes are that large outside of major current fringes, but I wouldn't know)

Wouldn't it be better to just eliminate as much stress as possible? I had no qualms about removing the parasitic snails from my clams, even though they were natural

Just curious.

 

[Sloeber]

i'm reading my newest acquisition "reef fishes" by scott micheal. only owned it a day or 2 now, but it seems great. one curious part is the temp section. scott micheal admits his tanks stay at 74' year round. also, he speaks of what he calls the "bite rate". he uses a Plectroglyphidodon lacrymatus as an example. it's "bite rate" at 77' is 225 bites per hour. at a temp of 82', the "bite rate" went up to 425. this equates to a 52% increase in food cunsumption with raising the temp 5'. i personally don't mind feeding more, as i feed rather heavy now. but it is curious stats that he supplies. secondly, he speaks of oxygen, but he doesn't say how much is needed. only that less is available in warmwer temps in cross-referencing with TMCRA by fossa/nilsen, they say that O2 concentrations at a water temp of 20'C (68'F) and a salt concentration of 36ppm (1.027 SG) to be about 5.3 mg/l. the same salt at a temp of 30'C (86') is 4.5 mg/l. at a salinity of 32.5 ppm (1.0242 SG) and a temp of 20'C the O2 is 5.4 mg/l and a temp of 30'C was 4.65. my question is, no one says how much O2 is needed for our specimens to survive. mr shimek, any ideas? and why would scott micheal write that he has happy, slow growing fish at a temp of 74' even though the paragraph above he states the water temps of reefs around the world - most being 80' and above?

HTH and TIA

henry

 

[badgers]