75 or 120

[Alaska_Phil]

Don't forget that the extra front to back depth gives you that much more space for equipment in the stand. Personally I love the look of Glass Cages 95 Wide at 48 x 24 x 17. I have a 24" tall planted freshwater tank (65 gal) and I have trouble reaching anything on the bottom back of the tank.

Phil

 

[Henry Bowman]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15356517#post15356517 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rendogg
Yes, you're right, start up cost would be the real kicker. Tank itself, larger skimmer, more lighting, bigger circulation pumps, bigger return pump, more live rock, stocking, bigger reactor, etc..... it adds up.
Then there's the long term operation. Replacing bulbs (the bigger and more of them the more expensive), a new reeflo (after a couple years they die and need to be replaced), more additives/reactor media/CO2, more electricity, bigger water changes (not a deal breaker here), more heat that may need cooling, general unforeseen maintenance, etc..... definitely not marginal in the big picture.

I am not trying to be argumentitive. Rendogg, your post got me to thinking. I put stuff down on posts here in RC without really doing the math...

OK, so lets do the math. Going to Premium Aquatics (they have LR too) Glass Cages for a Tank comparison.

70 wide Tank $ 231 - 120 $ 300
Salt initial using IO for basics Initial Fill 70 $20.98 120 $27.98
Live Rock 70lb $337.5 120 $540.
Light 48"ATI 6 bulb $719 8bulb $899

For Simplicity sake I am going to say we run a Iwaki RLT 55 on both tanks 312.95 I have one that has been running for 7yrs.
Also, most Ca RX are rated for "up to"
a GEO 612 is $332.00

Heaters 70 needs...Finnex 2 ea 150W (redundancy is good) $32.95 ea I would recomend the same set up for both tanks. Might be able to save $20 here...

Water changes 10% a week .28 cents per gal
70 gl = 7gl or 1.96 X 50 weeks a year 97.93
120 = 10gl or 3.36 X 50 = 134.3

There are additives electricity etc. Lets ADD 5% to the 70 and 10% to the 120.

70gl = 2117.26 + 5%(105.86)=2223.12
120 = 2612.16 + 10%(212)= 2628

OK. If someone is going to spend over 2 grand on a tank set up, The BASIC (very crude basics here) difference is 404.88. or 26%.
The difference in expense is NOT marginal, I agree. But the results are more than 26% "Better" in the end, for me, may not be for someone else.


I guess it depends on whether you are the type that buys tools from Walmart or Craftsman from Sears. (not intended as demeaning to either entity or purchaser) Sure the Craftsman costs more but "I" will personaly be happier with in the long run. I'm the type that pays for the better or bigger item and then am satisfied with it in the long run instead wanting to upgrade or paying again to get the one I wanted when starting the project.

These are all ideas and thoughts that must be considered when starting a "hobby" or setting goals. When I started reefing, I knew that if I was going to do it, I wanted to do it "right - for me".

I appreciate your post Rendogg and will put more thought into my posts before hitting send.

This message is intended to assist the OP in making a better informed decision.

Good Luck !

 

[rendogg]

Awesome, great price evaluation and breakdown Henry! That should definitely help the OP make an informed decision. I agree with your philosophy on buying quality with the future in mind, if experience has taught me anything, it's that. I would also go for the 120 over the 75, just more possibilities. Circulation pumps will add to the expense as well, I would go for a couple tunzes or vortechs with controller, maybe both as they both have their upsides.

 

[Frenchcrkcorals]

the added width of the 120 would be really nice, you can do so much more with the rock structure with an extra 6", maintenance costs won't be too much more, water change frequency and additive dosages have more to do with bio load than tank size.

 

[small alien]

Thanks a lot, Henry. It really helps to see those numbers and it's good of you to take the time. I'm going 120.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Allright Alien.....

The real test is for you to update us with where and what you are actually going to do.

I have a few thoughts in "closing".... Remember the following statements are "my opinion" and probably worth EXACTLY what you have paid for them...

Dont try to create a bunch of circulation with the main pump. Just shoot for enough flow to get 3-4X tunrover in the sump.

Make a sump from a smaller aquarium. You can save a bunch of $$ here. For my 120 project, I have a 40 breeder. I had a local glass store cut squares that are 1/4" less than the width of the tank. The 40B will fit under most 120 size stands.

Create the circulation with a closed loop or decent powerheads. Although Tunze's and or Vortechs are pricey, they will pay for themselves in electric efficiency (may take a year or so but they will) For general purpose guesses... My Tunzes run about 10 watts each, another external is going to run 150+ Watts. Trade off is that the internal powerheads detract from clean lines and overall look.

Others may disagree with the next statement(s)..
Buy the best lights you can, I think you are going with T5's which I personaly believe is a good idea. ATI's are great lights as mentioned above, you can get a 6 bulb unit and be fine or get an 8 bulb unit and grow SPS on the bottom of the tank without a problem. I like using ATI blue + and blue specials with a GE 6500 and or a Figi Purple in the mix. You can play with the combos but I'd stick with a few Blue+ and Blue Specials.

Flow in the tank is critical to SPS and often overlooked. 60-80X turnover is not uncommon in SPS tanks. LPS mainly and zoas wont tolerate that kind of flow, I'd suggest cutting the number back to 30X.

Buy a GOOD skimmer. I have an I-Tech that I love, have used EuroReef's and H&S in the past. Octopus skimmers are getting great reviews and are worth a look.

All in all I have enjoyed this thread and everyones involvment. Hopefully we have been of some overall help.

Take Care and keep us posted !

 

[small alien]

I'll say you have, Henry. It's just awesome when folks really give you thoughtful answers to your post and that's what I've gotten here.

I have to admit, I was a little disoriented this weekend when I saw a bunch of the new Marineland cube tanks. Wow. A 40, 60, 70 and 93. Really beautiful. My wife, however, thinks a longer tank would look better in our house and I think she's probably right. Those cubes are sexy though!

This will be largely an LPS tank with smaller, lower flow fish like cardinals, pipes, dragonet, etc. I appreciate the thoughts about flow and about energy efficiency. Tunze powerheads always seem expensive but I can see the bigger picture now with that.

Henry, your price breakdown between the 75 and 120 is about exactly what I came up with (though mine was not as thourough). I figure the 120 to be about $500 more to set up.

That $500 would pretty easily stock the tank.

I will update this thread when I make my move. It'll be pretty soon because my wife isn't too into three little tanks in the living room.

Best, small the alien

 

[atwinparadox2]

If you can go with the 120, you won't be disappointed. There will be a point, where you fill the 75 and tell yourself, man if i got the 120 i would have been able to add.... you fill in the blank

 

[JasonD]

I have a 120 and glad I went that route from a 100 gallon standard tank. That being said I wish I had gone to a 150 gallon, same dimensions as 120 except 30 inches wide instead of 24.

Jason

 

[austin93]

You will eventually want sps, trust me, its better to start with that in mind. When you look at the lps you want and it costs 65 and that sps frag cost 20 you will see what I mean.

 

[Paco]

120 and never looked back. I moved up from an Oceanic 58, which was a great starter tank. I love the dimensions. Click my red house to see how I set it all up. Reefing on a budget!

 

[1DeR9_3Hy]

Just throwing this out their, it might have been mentioned:

I was looking at both tanks, one or the other. I ended up with a 50 breeder (36x18x20) for one reason only.

I can make a 50 breeder look 100X better than i could make a 120 look for the same amount of money. I don't want bigger fish or more fish, so really the extra size of the 120 was not attractive to me.

$.02

 

[Paco]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15384132#post15384132 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 1DeR9_3Hy
Just throwing this out their, it might have been mentioned:

I was looking at both tanks, one or the other. I ended up with a 50 breeder (36x18x20) for one reason only.

I can make a 50 breeder look 100X better than i could make a 120 look for the same amount of money. I don't want bigger fish or more fish, so really the extra size of the 120 was not attractive to me.

$.02

I think this is really valid. Unfortunately, I really wanted some fish that simply won't fit into something that small.

 

[small alien]

Oh, geesh, JasonD. More options is NOT what I need.

Austin93, you could certainly be right. I do love me some fleshy LPS though and I doubt that will change. I'm sure I'll try a few so I'll try to have a tank that would support some of the easier SPS as well. Thanks.

 

[small alien]

1DeR9_3Hy, that is a very interesting thought. I appreciate your input very much. Did you drill your 50 is just HOB equipment?

 

[small alien]

Thinking this through until it hurts!

 

[teog]

75g tank seems big at first, but most reefers quickly out grow them. IMO 120g is the perfect size tank.

 

[1DeR9_3Hy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15384530#post15384530 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by small alien
1DeR9_3Hy, that is a very interesting thought. I appreciate your input very much. Did you drill your 50 is just HOB equipment?

Its not built yet, im in the middle of the stand right now. I am going to be using a 20'sh gallon fuge, a Deltec APF600, RKL and drews dosing pumps for Ca/Alk. The lights will be 5-6 over driven T5's on an Icecap 660 + 430/workhorse. I am shooting for TOTM quality in a few years.

The holes for the overflow will be a "coast-to-coast" style, modified of course. So two holes in the back panel, near the top then loc-line for a return (probably just one because i am only using a Mag 5 pump).

If this was a 75 or a 120, i would be hunting for a bigger skimmer/fuge/return pump. Also i would be worried about the cost of 2-part for dosing, and thinking about a Calcium reactor. Then their is the added cost of more electricity for more lights, and larger koralias for flow, and more salt for changes....it all adds up.

For now, just being out of college and starting a career i really want to do well at/enjoy I dont want to be too caught up in my tank for a couple years. Just water changes and bulb changes followed by some skimmer cleanings/dumpings is what im thinking.

 

[small alien]

Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate you taking the time. I'm not familiar with over-driven T5's. How does that work? Cheers.

 

[1DeR9_3Hy]

I dont know exactly how it works, someone like Grimreefer would know....

Anyways, here is the ballast:

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~IC1121.html

As an example of what it does, picture this. You have 4 48" T5 HO bulbs, each putting out 54 watts on a standard high output ballast. When wired into a IC 660 ballast, instead of putting out 54 watts it will now put out closer to 85 watts and there will be some color changes in the bulbs due to the higher wattage. In general, this is how you burn corals and grow SPS lol....

Heres what i have so far for the stand (not much, i just started today):

Im following Rocketengineers DIY thread on building the stand.