crewf16chief
New member
then i think the shippment killed the fish. That is why i would always buy my livestock from a LFS. i think this is a good topic for the meeting. LFS vs internet.
a conversation about LFS
- Thread starter JNye
- Start date
Fuppets
New member
I don't see how you wouldn't need medication. Trying to save a sick fish from an infection that it had before it ever arrived at your door. He could have said screw it and never unbagged them. He'd still have gotten his refund, but he was trying to "save" the fish from a sickness that they had before they were ever bagged up. He or any of the LFS never knew that he was going to be recieving fish that needed medication to make through the next 24 hours. The fish died anyway, but he was trying to save them and to do that he was trying to medicate them.
I just don't see how you can say that there was no need for medication. Does the doctor tell you that when you show up at his office sick?
I talked to Jimmy at EA about this abd he simply said that there really was nothing he could do to save them. He sure was trying and he wanted to find an available aquarium medication to use. No LFS carried it. Was it an emergency? I would say so they all died. Did the LFS have the meds he was looking for? I believe he said NO. I amso believe he said he was testing and was prepared to do water changes in the event of an ammonia spike.
In the end the fish died anyway. He was trying to save them by all means. Had any LFS actually had what he wanted they would have been his hero. Regardless if the meds help or not, they had what he wanted in a hurry.
I just don't see how you can say that there was no need for medication. Does the doctor tell you that when you show up at his office sick?
I talked to Jimmy at EA about this abd he simply said that there really was nothing he could do to save them. He sure was trying and he wanted to find an available aquarium medication to use. No LFS carried it. Was it an emergency? I would say so they all died. Did the LFS have the meds he was looking for? I believe he said NO. I amso believe he said he was testing and was prepared to do water changes in the event of an ammonia spike.
In the end the fish died anyway. He was trying to save them by all means. Had any LFS actually had what he wanted they would have been his hero. Regardless if the meds help or not, they had what he wanted in a hurry.
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crewf16chief
New member
what i'm saying is if you have healthy fish from the beginning and you do things right you dont need medication. Also if the fish was infected before he opened the bag I personally would've not opened the bag. It is my opionon so dont take it any deeper then that. That is why i dont order online, I stick with my LFS. Because if you see a fish and it is sick you dont buy it. When you order online you have no control over what you get. I dont add stress to myself with this hobby I have a few questions for the store about the fish and i choose whether or not to buy it. I just like to keep things in my control as much as possible. To the docto r side of things everytime you go to the doctor they dont always give you medication they just might tell you to get more rest and drink more fluids or even change your diet to make yourself feel better. This comes back around to why LFS dont stock medications. They probly would have to buy 10 bottles for one person to buy something once a year. Also to the point of going to the store and asking them to order something. Unless the customer pays for it up front they really dont know if you are going to come back for the product that they ordered for you. Also for DFS they just dont do fish if they are slow in the fish departmen they have other places to bring in money for them. that is why LFS store have a hard time they focus on one hobby and not on multiple things. Like i said this is just my opionon and when i open my store it will be a shock to this area because in SC the stores do take the plunge and bring in things that they know they wont sell often and i would do the samething. But i think you have to bring those things in the beginning and not half way through the business being up but the is my opionon
pescadero
In Memoriam
Well, you certainly have some strong opinions, but there is a problem in that they are speculative and your comments have no basis in fact. It would really be better if you took the time to learn the facts of the situation before accusing people of making a beginner's error in husbandry. At the risk of sounding equally pompous I would like to point out that I have been keeping fish longer than you have been alive. No, that is not an exaggeration.
If you're going to make assumptions, it would be safe to assume that I learned something about bioloads in the past 40 years as a fishkeeper. You've assumed that there was a serious error in husbandry and that there was a bio-overload that overwhelmed the filtration system. That's not the case.
My quarantine tank is a 65g system that had 100 lb of live rock in it that had been cycled "fallow" with a full "sterile" bioload since November. The rock had been fed every day with an amount of synthetic waste that was calculated to match the waste product bioload provided by the exact mass of the fish (in grams) that were to be introduced into the system. The biofilter had already been cultured so that the microbial population was titrated to process the projected bioload. The nitrogen cycle was monitored continuously and tested 0/0/0.
Furthermore, 24 fish were never placed in one tank. I have five isolation systems running right now.
Unfortunately, many of the fish arrived from the distributor dead in the bag. A total of 10 of the chromis viridis that had survived the shipment went into a fully cycled tank with a fully functioning biofilter. Within a matter of hours the remaining fish all died from a pre-existing parasitic infestation that they came with from the distributor. The infestation also killed the pigmy angelfish who was exposed by concomitant introduction into that quarantine system.
This comment about antibiotics is so untrue that it makes me question your professional expertise.
In regard to your recommendation to "take the steps slow," my QT system had been cycling since NOVEMBER in anticipation of this fish stocking event. Is that taking it slow enough?
I won't bore you with the details of how I performed autopsies or isolated the microorganism in the laboratory to establish the definitive diagnosis of a highly virulent strain of Uronema marinum. Insofar as you are a fish expert, I won't have to explain to you the susceptibility of the chromis and the centropyge genuses to this pathogen. The good news is that LA is now aware of the problem and they are taking steps to correct it.
In the future it would probably be better to fully investigate the situation before making inflammatory comments.
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crewf16chief
New member
pescadero you really need to keep your feelings in check. I simply said that they were my thoughts and opionons. I never said you were a beginner or even that you didnt know what you were doing. I also said that i didnt know the whole situation and that i simply had an opionon and until i knew what happened. I never said and if did it wasnt saying you did wrong i simply trying to find out how you go about adding fish. also i said that the shippment probly killed the fish. I just wanted to know why would you put in 24 fish in at one time. these are simple question i'm not attacking you, I was trying to find out if there was anything that could've been changed. Just because you've been doing this longer than i've been alive doesn't mean that technology or ideas have changed in the last 40 years. So please keep your feelings in check and just have a conversation with me. I saw you were on when i was typing and i figured you would've chimed in but you never did so i answered to fuppets and what he said. Once again I'm not accusing you of anything I just had questions. Things like this is why i shop at LFS and not on the internet so i can see what i'm getting and really on someone else to pick out my fish for me.
pescadero
In Memoriam
actually, this is what you said. the implications are clear:
you flip-flopped in your opinon after Shawn told you that you were off base. at any rate, I'm not offended. i just didn't like to see you going off half-cocked with comments that did not apply, so i called you on it. its over. let's move on.
crewf16chief
New member
actually i would like to continue the conversation but in person so if you can come to the meeting on the 19th I would like to know how you go about adding fish because i dont know everything and maybe i can learn everything and what i believe is just my opionon that is all. And your right i did flip-flop because i got more information that is why i ask questions. I dont think an eco system can take 24 fish be adding but i have been wrong before my experience is that when i added that many fish to a tank i lost more than half of them so i have that opionon doesnt mean someone else has different outcome.
AquaGrizzly
New member
I can feel the love in here.
AquaGrizzly
New member
How about those Chicago baseball teams. Sox are coming back now.
pescadero
In Memoriam
Oh, Scott, don't mention the Cubbies. 
Its beginning to look like this won't be the year either.
Chris, i may be headed to Inland Aquatics in TH on the date of the next club meeting. You've got my phone number, right? You can call whenever, but they way things are going right now chances are my hands will be slippery with bleach.
Mike, my dog is sleeping on my feet as I type this.
With regard to the "fish tank expert" thing, we're all still learning. I've made my share of mistakes along the way and I've tried to learn from them, but learning from your mistakes isn't always enough to have good outcomes. Even fish that come from the best sources will ship with diseases on them, and getting rid of the diseases that they carry before exposing them to the other fish in your community can be a herculean task. Right now I've got two different quarantine systems that have different disease outbreaks going on in them. Well, on the bright side, my clownfish tank is doing just great.
Its beginning to look like this won't be the year either.Chris, i may be headed to Inland Aquatics in TH on the date of the next club meeting. You've got my phone number, right? You can call whenever, but they way things are going right now chances are my hands will be slippery with bleach.
Mike, my dog is sleeping on my feet as I type this.
With regard to the "fish tank expert" thing, we're all still learning. I've made my share of mistakes along the way and I've tried to learn from them, but learning from your mistakes isn't always enough to have good outcomes. Even fish that come from the best sources will ship with diseases on them, and getting rid of the diseases that they carry before exposing them to the other fish in your community can be a herculean task. Right now I've got two different quarantine systems that have different disease outbreaks going on in them. Well, on the bright side, my clownfish tank is doing just great.
Fuppets
New member
Has either Chicago team won a game yet? I don't follow baseball.
Sea i have to agree with you on one thing. As long as a new problem isn't added to your tank. Good parameters and good food shoyld be all your fish need. Last time I had a health problem all I did was extra water changes and fed the fish more. Pulled through like a champ. I work with a guy who panicks and starts throwing in meds.. Sometimes it works sometimes it don't.
Sea i have to agree with you on one thing. As long as a new problem isn't added to your tank. Good parameters and good food shoyld be all your fish need. Last time I had a health problem all I did was extra water changes and fed the fish more. Pulled through like a champ. I work with a guy who panicks and starts throwing in meds.. Sometimes it works sometimes it don't.
AquaGrizzly
New member
They won today. 2-1
JNye
Moved On Up
Sox win baby, but they scare me,:frown:,
Seaolife, I agree with you 100% about the internet out competing with LFS and such, I used to look at this as a bad thing too, but like they say if you can't beat em join em. We can't stop the internet. Embrace it. If only the best LFS's survive fine. Kurt and Jimmy will be the only source for great livestock in NWI, we'll see. Fine, whatever the market can support it will, its capitalism. I still buy livestock as stated before, but dry goods? why bother, good LFS's don't even bother stocking dry goods properly except for themselves/new tank set-ups and such.
Seaolife, I agree with you 100% about the internet out competing with LFS and such, I used to look at this as a bad thing too, but like they say if you can't beat em join em. We can't stop the internet. Embrace it. If only the best LFS's survive fine. Kurt and Jimmy will be the only source for great livestock in NWI, we'll see. Fine, whatever the market can support it will, its capitalism. I still buy livestock as stated before, but dry goods? why bother, good LFS's don't even bother stocking dry goods properly except for themselves/new tank set-ups and such.
