A discussion on "how to set up a perfect SPS reef"

[kvosstra]

I don't consider a fuge a must. I've been running without a fuge for the last 3 or 4 years, and I've done just fine. For me, the biggest reason has been space. With the space I have available, I don't think a fuge would be big enough to be effective.

So, do you not believe that a fuge is actually necessary, or, that in your current setup, a fuge of sufficient size is not possible? I have run a tiny fuge, like 1/40th of tank volume all the way to a very large fuge, about 1/3 to 1/2 of the size of tank volume. I have friends who run a large fuge than their display as well.

thanks for the comments!

-Kyle

 

[phenom5]

So, do you not believe that a fuge is actually necessary, or, that in your current setup, a fuge of sufficient size is not possible? I have run a tiny fuge, like 1/40th of tank volume all the way to a very large fuge, about 1/3 to 1/2 of the size of tank volume. I have friends who run a large fuge than their display as well.

thanks for the comments!

-Kyle

Both. I don't think a fuge is necessary, and I don't think my current setup allows for a fuge of sufficient size. But that's not to say that I think fuges are bad on any tank, SPS or otherwise. It's just one of those more than one way to skin a cat type of things.

 

[ctripi]

I'm waiting for everyone to chime in about Alk/Ca supplementation.

I'm frustrated with CaRxr's but like the balanced addition of trace elements absent from two-part or balling methods. Ideally, both should be automated; therefore both are equally prone to mechnical / electrical failure.

I too think real LR is a must. Quarantine prior to usage or just thorough observation/quarantine while the rock is cycling. I'd like to hear if people using seeded dead rock have the actual benthic diversity that comes with LR (sponges, tunicates, worms).

More thoughts of hindsight for ReeferX......

I definitely go with a fuge but I would like to place it above the display so that it can gravity-feed pods to the tank.

I'd probable have a rather bare display tank supported by a fuge/sump that greatly exceeds the display tank size in water volume (like 2:1 ratio).

I might consider a sump or fuge that has very high flow and a conical or funnel shaped bottom with a spigot (second thought would be to have an elevated sump with a spigot). So that when I go to remove detritus all I have to do is open the spigot-valve.

BTW definitely external overflow.

 

[SunnyX]

Let me preface the conversation by saying that I believe that there is no "perfect" or single method of creating and maintaining a successful reef aquarium.

I have setup and tried many differing concepts and methods over the years, and all have produced varying degrees of success. In this day and age of reefing we are no longer bound to the rules of old. Outdated recommendations such as the watt per gallon, pounds per gallon, and even things such as "proper" nutrient import/export rules no longer apply. If I were to jump back 10 years and tell reefers that you can run an SPS tank completely under fluorescents, with no live rock, minimal water changes, very low WPG(watts per gallon) and a photoperiod under 6 hours a day they would think I was crazy.

This hobby is progressing so fast that things we thought were inadequate or inefficient are now becoming the trend, while at the same time being looked at in a totally different light. Think about this; to this very day I still get emails from people asking me if SPS actually grow under T5's in my tank. I have even had people tell me that I grew and SPS under MH and only swap out the fixture for a T5 when its time for photos. :lol:As if I was working for a T5 company. Its crazy but true!

Now I am not saying that the old ways are bad, you still need a solid base of understanding and methodology in order to obtain success in this hobby. If you don’t have a firm grip on the basics you will never succeed. When I say basics I am referring to:

1. Water quality
2. Water flow
3. Nutrient import/export
4. Lighting
5. General knowledge (read, read, read!)
6. Passion, Patience and a strong resolve

I put the last one in bold as I believe this to be the most important. Without the passion for this hobby you would give up at the first sign of trouble, be it livestock death, algae, or a crash. Without patience you would take shortcuts that would eventually cause a disaster down the road. And above all you must have a strong resolve. Know that you will lose livestock, your system may crash, but if you can weather the storm and learn from your mistakes you will come out a better reefer. Eventually after all of the mistakes and mishaps reefing will come to you as almost second nature. You will learn to spot issues in you system and livestock with minimal testing based simply on small indicators.

I am a firm believer in the basics and a "low tech" approach. You will not find and controllers, monitor, or automated systems on my setup. I dont use a CA reator, I dose a two part by hand. I am not saying there is anything wrong with tech, I just don’t need anymore gadgets and toys to complicate my "reef life". Nature so far has proven to be the greatest of reefers, so I am obliged to follow.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is no right or "perfect" way of reefing. I truly believe that with enough knowledge and experience you could create a reef with a 100 different methods and still end up with the same result.

The clothes don’t make the man, just as the tools and methods don’t make the reef.

 

[Ollyp5673]

I favor a low tech approach too,although maybe not as simple and it takes a bit more time and effort with dosing, topping up etc, I get more enjoyment and am more involved with the tank, which I thinks makes it all the more enjoyable. I've not even got an auto-topoff unit, its all done by hand in measured amounts. All i've got in my sump is a skimmer, zeo-reactor and return pump.

 

[ankor253]

Let me preface the conversation by saying that I believe that there is no "perfect" or single method of creating and maintaining a successful reef aquarium.

I have setup and tried many differing concepts and methods over the years, and all have produced varying results of success. In this day and age of reefing we are no longer bound to the rules of old. Outdated recommendations such as the watt per gallon, pounds per gallon, and even things such as "proper" nutrient import/export rules no longer apply. If I were to jump back 10 years and tell reefers that you can run an SPS tank completely under fluorescents, with no live rock, minimal water changes, very low WPG(watts per gallon) and a photoperiod under 6 hours a day they would think I was crazy.

This hobby is progressing so fast that things we thought were inadequate or inefficient are now becoming the trend, while at the same time being looked at in a totally different light. Think about this; to this very day I still get emails from people asking me if SPS actually grow under T5's in my tank. I have even had people tell me that I grew and SPS under MH and only swap out the fixture for a T5 when its time for photos. :lol:As if I was working for a T5 company. Its crazy but true!

Now I am not saying that the old ways are bad, you still need a solid base of understanding and methodology in order to obtain success in this hobby. If you don't have a firm grip on the basics you will never succeed. When I say basics I am referring to:

1. Water quality
2. Water flow
3. Nutrient import/export
4. Lighting
5. General knowledge (read, read, read!)
6. Passion, Patience and a strong resolve

I put the last one in bold as I believe this to be the most important. Without the passion for this hobby you would give up at the first sign of trouble, be it livestock death, algae, or a crash. Without patience you would take shortcuts that would eventually cause a disaster down the road. And above all you must have a strong resolve. Know that you will lose livestock, your system may crash, but if you can weather the storm and learn from your mistakes you will come out a better reefer. Eventually after all of the mistakes and mishaps reefing will come to you as almost second nature. You will learn to spot issues in you system and livestock with minimal testing based simply on small indicators.

I am a firm believer in the basics and a "low tech" approach. You will not find and controllers, monitor, or automated systems on my setup. I dont use a CA reator, I dose a two part by hand. I am not saying there is anything wrong with tech, I just don't need anymore gadgets and toys to complicate my "reef life". Nature so far has proven to be the greatest of reefers, so I am obliged to follow.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is no right or "perfect" way of reefing. I truly believe that with enough knowledge and experience you could create a reef with a 100 different methods and still end up with the same result.

The clothes don't make the man, just as the tools and methods don't make the reef.

Very well stated and you have a sytem to prove it!!!

 

[kvosstra]

SunnyX - thanks for the input.

However, I am surprised that you keep your tanks so "low tech." Honestly, in my mind the features you speak of "controllers, montor, or automated systems," are some of the BEST additions to our reefs over the past 10 years, and frankly I don't know how I would reef without them.

In my experience, an auto-top off is essential - I'm not always home at the same time, I'm busy with my life, and often dont have time to work on the tank every day, nor would I want to, so keeping the salinity stable is essential in my mind.

Calcium and ALK addition - Again - while it has worked for you, In my experience, those without a system to dose their tanks on a very regular basis (CA reactor, or Dosing pumps), have their tanks fail. Why? Becuase they forget one day, or get too busy another, or get stuck in the office, or...want to take a 3 - 5 day vacation! The constant addition of CA and ALK, again, IMHO, is essential to a stable tank.

Finally, a controller, is again so essential in my mind - I find that a heater is much more likely to fail than the temp probe on my ranco, and I am happy that my Neptune aquacontroller can first turn on a fan on my tank when it gets above 79 degrees, but then the chiller kicks on at a bit higher temp and finally the lights off, on exceptionally hot days.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is no right or "perfect" way of reefing. I truly believe that with enough knowledge and experience you could create a reef with a 100 different methods and still end up with the same result.

However, this statement of course is true - your reefs are stunning, and so there is more than one way to skin a cat. I think that for me, some of the automation is essential, for you, its not. Neither is right or wrong, just they work well for each of us, based on our particular set of circumstances.

Thanks for the input!

 

[broke1]

Alot of good posts above. I too think there are many ways to set up a perfect tank. My current set up is 100g DT and a 40g cryptic tank, 75g fuge/LPS tank(DSB), 50g lagoon fuge(macro) and a 60g sump. I have chosen more of a natural approach, but I wanted working volume, not just volume. It's actually very low tech, with just dosing pumps hooked to an AC3. I dose about 1/4 of the Vodka I should, I don't know fi it helps, but I am pretty sure it doesn't hurt.

 

[cdbdis]

Ahhh the search for the "perfect" SPS setup - a dangerous wormhole indeed. Fact - There is no "one" right way. I've broken nearly every 'rule' in the book and continue to enjoy a very successful SPS reef since 2002. Find what works best for you and then run with it.

 

[RickMartin]

How does one go about obtaining such live rock?

Just look for uncured live rock, generally it means it was never unpacked at the wholesalers

 

[kvosstra]

I've been away for a few days, and unfortunately we have not extended this discussion very far. So, Ill keep prodding, as the moderator of sorts and see how we can continue this discussion.

Ahhh the search for the "perfect" SPS setup - a dangerous wormhole indeed. Fact - There is no "one" right way. I've broken nearly every 'rule' in the book and continue to enjoy a very successful SPS reef since 2002. Find what works best for you and then run with it.

CDBDIS, I think this is a perfectly acceptable topic, for those like you and I who have enjoyed success and for others who have not. I'm simply seeking to develop a thorough discussion on some of the Better ("best") strategies to employ when starting a new tank. If you dont mind, would you elucidate on the rules you have broken, and why they seemed to work for you.

Best,
-Kyle

 

[LifeAquatic]

I use the same approach as Sunny. Minus the carbon dosing. Couldnt be happier with my results. Good Husbandry makes the tank. I hardly even test for cal alk and mag anymore. I look at the corals... they tell me what they need. Also, I run a huge fuge on my 180 display. It might not be needed but it works great for me. Good luck with your new tank.

 

[kvosstra]

Well - since we are not getting too far on this topic, lets summarize and move on.

For starting a new tank - there seems to be two schools of thought - one is to get transshipped rock - so that it does not sit in a wholesale bin, or touch water at a LFS. Yes there will be some die-off, but this way should enable a nice biodiversity without additional risk of getting junk from the LFS or wholesale (parasites, aiptasia, etc.). Of course, the rock should still be scrubbed, and cleaned as necessary, and all the rock should be checked for nasty crabs, and other unwanted hitchhikers.

Another though is to use mostly dead rock and see this rock with just a few smaller pieces of live rock - this allows you to really be selective in what live rock you add - so to even further minimize the chance of parasites and unwanted hitchhikers in the tank.

I think both strategies are great and dont have a preference over one or the other. I do however believe that even with these tactics, one should aggressively use GFO and Carbon when first starting the tank to minimize phosphates and other organics buildup in the tank - This certainly, in my mind, falls under the "good husbandry" that folks have been alluding to.

Now that the rock has been selected - I'd be interested in hearing some thoughts about rock design and water flow.

Personally, I believe in the following things
1. SPS tanks need more flow than you can imagine - For instance, my 40g tank currently has over 3500 GPH turnover. and my old 180 reef included 4 streams, a wavebox and 2 vortechs...Yes, I like flow, and so do my corals!
2. Rockwork should be open to allow the maximum water flow - corals and rock block the flow - the more rock and coral you have, the more pumps you will need to get water moving in-an-out of all the crevices.
3. Drill you rock! Yes - all open surfaces should be drilled with a 1/4 drill (I mount my frags on 1/4 acrylic rods) and this allows easy placement of frags as well as the ability to seamlessly place frags horizontally, etc, without the need for lots of glue or epoxy.
4. Pumps should not be the focus of the tank - I love the vortech becuase of its small footprint - but Tunze's are fine too, if they can be properly hidden behind the rockwork.
5. "weir" flow in the tank is a very good option - allowing the tank to move left, then right, each in a circular pattern allows more water movement over the long run, and keeps detritus from settling.

Opinions are welcome - let us know what you think.

 

[sfsuphysics]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned.... fish load. I have on more than one occasion seen people throw fish after fish into a tank just to have a lot of movement. Or for whatever reason. I'd say stop, regardless of the tank size, get 1 or 2 good herbivores that attack different types of algae (tangs, etc) depending upon tank size obviously, and everything besides that is all fluff for show (one could argue a pest predator would be good as well).

Now this doesn't mean it's absolutely a necessity, but it does end up allowing you much better wiggle room in the long run, whether its you feeding the tank aggressively, going cheap on a protein skimmer, or being a bit lackadaisical with water changes.

And just to stress what others have said, what works for one person might not work for another. Too much effort thought into a tank might be a lot of wasted effort in the long run.

My 180 has a tomini tang (scraping algae), yellow tang (picking algae), 1 foxface (only reason he's in here is because I needed a tank to place him, he nibbles on sps too ), and 3 fish which are my fluff fish (2 anthias and a blenny)

 

[Dtronic]

I started my sps build from scratch, used BRS eco rock with some seed live rock from my previous 125.

Simple is better. I dose two part with pumps and timers.