A few general questions

Mstark11

Mstark11

New member
Ok, so I have just a few questions I'm going to ask for now (I have a whole ton more but I don't want to post all of them all at once.) because for the next few months the stand, and the tank with maybe a few pieces of live rock are all I'm going to be dealing with.

First off I was wondering where you get your tank supplies around Alamo? And I just mean where do you buy the glass for the tank, or the wood for stand? Can you get it at Home Depot?

Is there an appropriate sized height for the stand? I don't want to make it too tall and have it tip over.

For a 55 gal what kind of RO/DI system should I use? And at 55 gal. is an RO system going to make a noticeable difference for 180$ ?

How long can you let a tank cycle? With live sand/rock? Because this hobby is looking expensive, I can only do a few parts at a time, so I was wondering how long you can let an empty tank cycle, and if I can let live sand and rock sit in an empty tank, cycling for more than a month, or if that would just kill the hitch hikers?

And then my last question for now, I was wondering if anyone has a preferred retailer for livestock and tank accessories? I'd read in this forum that around here the livestock is less than preferable.

Thanks in advance! (:

-Melissa
 
I hope others will add to my suggestions but here are mine.
Wood you can get at home depot or Lowe's. Anywhere you buy wood. As far as glass are you planning on building your tank? I would advise against it if that is where you are thinking. For the size you are planning building a tank won't save you much and will be risky and time consuming. I would only build one if you are looking for something unusual or custom. I'm pretty sure Ray at fish and Phipps has some used 55 for sale. Also check for local ads to purchase a used tank. Stelas will be priced very high.

For stand height, most premade stands are on the short side. I'm sure there will be a point where it would be unstable but it is up to you how high you want to build it.

Yes RO/DI is a must for a reef tank. You should at least use a RO. Local water has upwards of 650ppm after my ro/di my water is at 0-2ppm and i change all my filter once it reaches 20-30ppm. For the time being you can use water from the water mills around town. They typically have 30-50ppm but after months of lugging water around you will want the RO in your house. bulk reef supply dot com has nice units for reasonable prices. Or use the local water mill and keep an eye out for a used unit. You probably won't need more than a 75gpd. There are used ones on this site all the time if you keep an watchful eye and are patient. You of course can not see the for sale forums until you have 90days and 50 posts. After that the for sale section will open up for you and you can find some great deals here. Just be careful who you send money too it is still an electronic transaction and you want to protect yourself.

For cycling, live rock and live sand. Don't waste you money buying all live. Purchase base rock or dried rock and dried sand. Then buy one bag of live sand to go on top of the dried sand and build you rock structure with the dried rock and add one or two pieces of live rock to put on top of your structure. If your tank is setup right after 6 months you won't be able to tell which was which. For the actual cycling process you can find several ways on the site. Basically you can cycle with fish, frozen shrimp or fish food. A month is a minimum for the tank to cycle. I suggest to build everything slowly and give you tank time to mature.

As far as live stock I would chose ray at fish and Phipps over stelas any day. Rays tanks are cleaner and the livestock will be in better shape because of that reason. There is nowhere local to by accessories. If you want a skimmer of lighting system you will have to order online. There are several stores in el Paso but I won't recommend any as I have found pests in most of the tanks down there so I you buy just be careful of that you are getting.

Now I could go on for hours but there is a good start, hope it helps. I also hope other members will chime in as well.

Later
Mitch
 
That's definitely good to know that fish n Phipps has aquariums. I was reading about them and for whatever reason got it in my head that they were a contractor, and didn't actually sell individual items to the public.

I've been looking around on craigslist and hollomanyardsales for a few days now and I'm not really sure what a good price for just the tank would really be. I'm looking at petco and there's a tank and hood for 150, so I would assume a used one would be less than that.

As for base or dried rock, can you grow coral on that? I really don't have any idea what the difference is between live and dried rock. I've seen a few videos on cycling, and I don't have really any intention of putting anything alive in it for 2-3 months.

Also, do you know where fish n' Phipps is located? I've tried to look it up but there's 3 some-ott addresses for it.
 
Fish and Phipps really isn't a store. He does tank maintenance. That is why I said he is hard to reach, but if you get a hold of him he usually has no problem you coming out to get some fish. I just know his tanks are in better shape than Stelas. On price of a used tank it is hard to say, for example an Oceanic is a better brand than a petco or walmart tank and will of course cost more. Wlamart has the same deal as Petco with an aquarium set up for roughly $150-160. Problem is the lighted hood will be useless and so will the filters or any other accessories that come with the tank.

I looked on Holloman yard sales and a month ago there was a 55 with cover for 50 bucks. Last time I was at rays he had two 55gal with stand for around $100. They were extremely dirty and needed a coat of paint on the stand but they were your basic 55 with pine stand. building a stand won't really be any cheaper but you can make it look nicer. The club member babybrown might be able to help or I wouldn't mind helping either. You can use wood trim to make it as fancy as you want. I like cleaner less obvious stands because I want all attention on the tank. I also like more modern styles but that is completely a personal decision.

Base rock is not living, it is dried out calcium based rock, usually dead coral mined out of the ground. It is far cheaper than live rock. but as stated if you purchase just one or two premium pieces of live rock it will spread and cultivate the dead rock. You won't ever be able to tell the difference.

2-3 month with nothing living probably won't work unless you are feeding the tank with fish food or frozen shrimp. You have to have something for the bacteria to feed on. In a setup tank it would be the fish waste and left over food. Something has to be breaking down to feed the bacteria and allow it to grow. This is also why you should add fish slowly. Your tank needs time to react to the extra fish product and allow your bacteria population to grow before adding more fish. If you dump too many fish at once you bacteria can't handle it all and your levels of ammonia, nitrate and phosphate will rise and kill all your fish. This will spike your levels more and you can cause your levels see saw as you add fish again they die spike your levels then they are gone levels go down, you add too many fish again and so on and so on. It can really cause a problem that will last for a while. This is where most get tired of it and leave the hobby.
So I would add a small fish after a few weeks or just feed your tank for a couple month. It is up to you.

Fish and Phipps
70 Mesa Verde Ranch Rd
Alamogordo
(575) 437-4080
Certainly don't go out there with out calling first. He can order what you want if he doesn't have it.

So I'll call it quits for now or i won't stop.

Later
Mitch
 
Ok now I'm confused again, haha. (Dont worry this happens every other hour in learning about this hobby.)
So you're saying to cycle with fish? How long would you cycle that? Would you add 1 or 2 corals first, or after it's cycled? do you wait for the chemicals to reach the levels they are supposed to to call it finished cycling, or should i still wait for a month or two? Thats one thing that really turned me on to this hobby was the fact that you have to add fish slowly. It spreads out how much money you can spend at once.
 
Sorry to confuse you.
Simply put you need ammonia to start your cycle.

NitrogenCycle.jpg


The ammonia will feed the bacteria and start the cycle. You should read about the nitrogen cycle to get the specifics but it isn't too complicated. Fish waste, fish food, or a piece of frozen shrimp "rot" in your tank breaking down and producing ammonia. Some people even add ammonia chloride. There are also products on the market to help cycle the tank. You will be waiting for the nitrite to spike and reach zero before your tank is cycled.

So basically if you have no form of ammonia in your tank your cycle will not start properly. That is why if you are not "feeding" your tank for 2-3 month it won't really do much good. I'm not necessarily recommending cycling with fish, there are probably a dozen different ways to cycle to system and you should find the one that best suits you. Most people cycle with a fish because it gives them something to look at while the process takes place. It has its downfalls as well though, such as possible fish death, being stuck with a fish you may not want and possibility of introducing pathogens into your system.

As far as coral you want to make sure your system in cycled before you ever think about adding them. You should also start with easier, hardier corals first and save move delicate corals, such as SPS, for after your tank has matured.

I hope i wrote all that correct and it is easier to understand. If you search for nitrogen cycle you will find thousands of articles describing the process and the different options of completing it.

And yes even after the cycle you should still add fish slowly. Just because it is cycled doesn't' mean it is mature enough to add a dozen fish at once. One or two fish at a time.....

Later
Mitch
 
I linked a video on the cycling products on the facebook page. It is a video from Mr.saltwater tank whom is another great producer of saltwater videos.
 
Yea I've gotten a few lists together of 10-15 'easy to care for' corals and fish. It was sort of horrifying to see "Strong neurotoxin that may affect humans" on the list of easy to use corals.

I can probably cycle with dead shrimp then. Should I add a small cleanup crew first? Or no? I would really prefer not to kill anything in my tank before I've even started that would bum me out. That's why I was a little worried when I thought you were trying to get me to cycle with fish.

As of right now I've watched 6 or 7 bulk reef videos on how to start up the tank, as well as am watching NewYorkSteelo's videos right now I've seen about 18 of them. I'll do Mr.Saltwater next. I think I've seen 1 or 2 of those.
 
I have another question now. While looking through a checklist of things needed to start up a tank, I saw 'protein skimmer, filters and filtration equipment' and I can't tell the difference between a sump and refugium, and a filter and skimmer. Which one is better? Do I need all 4 ? Are they different or the same thing with a different name?

And also, in this NM heat do fans suffice for cooling or would buying a chiller be absolutely necessary. I most likely will have clown fish and a Lo in my tank, so I'm not looking at anything that seems too fragile.
 
Skimmer is a must in my book. Especially since you are going for a reef tank. A standard filter gathers particulate from the water but doesn't remove it from the system. It simply rots on the filter pad and because water is still flowing over the pad is still degrading your water quality. A skimmer on the other hand actually removes it from the systems water, where it will sit in the collection cup until you clean the cup. Since it is no longer in the water it won't degrade you water quality. Purchase the best you can afford to fit within your budget. Stay away from the extremely cheap ones and stay away from seaclones. Used one can be sometimes be purchased at awesome prices.There are hang on the back skimmers, in tank skimmers and in sump skimmers

Usually a sump goes under you display tank and is a place for equipment and added water volume. This allows you to remove the equipment from the display and makes for a cleaner setup. Skimmers, heaters, filter media (carbon, GFO, ect..) and possibly auto top offs are the typical items place in the sump, but can also include automated test equipment
A refugium usually goes under but sometimes above you display. Usually there is lower flow thru it and it is a place for algae and small organisms such as coepod and amphipods to populate. The algae can help filter your water.
There are dozens of ways to set a refugium and a sump up. You can have deep sand beds, cryptic zones, extra liverock, and or mud beds.
Typically a sump and refugium are combined into one unit to save space. It will basically be a sump with a sectioned off area to allow the flow thru the sump to slow down.

Problem will be unless your tank is drilled for an overflow you will have to use a hang on the back overflow and thru personal experience know they are prone to failure and can cause your tank to overflow onto the floor.
There are hang on the back refugiums that can be useful or a small above the tank refugium is easy to install and pretty safe.
A sump and or refugium is not absolutely necessary but can make your system more stable.

Chiller isn't typically needed unless you have a lots of powerful pumps running and a lot of metal halide lights on. Usually fans blowing across the surface of the tank are all that is needed in the hottest months of summer. All this could vary depending on how hot or cool you keep you house.

Hopefully I said that clearly

Next

Later
Mitch
 
Still planning. First big purchase coming up here at the start of the month. And I was just wondering if you had any opinion as to what I should get ?

I'm flip-flopping on whether or not I want to buy the dry sand and rock and just set it up so I have something in my aquarium for aesthetics. Or if I should get my RO/DI? Since the stand is still just a shell I don't really have anywhere to put any under-the-tank stuff.

351sikn.jpg
 
The roomie has been helping me build it by doing all the easy stuff like measuring and cutting and drilling and left me to do all the hard work like sitting around and micromanaging ;)
 
Well if you don't mind getting water form the local water mill for awhile I'd go with the rock and sand. I'd start there because you could actually start you tank. Even if you are not ready to start it up it would give you plenty of time to arrange your rock work. You want it to be pleasing to your eyes because it is a pain to rearrange later.
Have you found a place to purchase your rock? A lot of people seem happy with macro rock dot com and I like to deal with bulk reef supply but I've never purchased rock from them. I'd stay away from that heavy, solid crap stelas has. You want the lightest, holey est pieces you can get.
Have you decided on the type of sand? I would recommend staying away from the crushed coral or large grained types. Go with small grain or if you are worried about your sand blowing around in the tank get a medium sized grained sand.

I have to ask if that is the pic of your stand laying on its side? Is it made of 4X4s? If so you could park a car on it. It never hurts to go overboard but man you could have gone way smaller. Not meant as a discouraging comment just an observation. If it is in deed made of 4X4 you will never have to worry about it collapsing. I made my stand for my 180gal out of a mixture of 2x4 and 4x4s.

If you live in town and need help feel free to ask. I have a decent amount of tools. I'm in no way a wood working master but I have made a few stands and can provide some help.

That offer of course goes out to any member of the club.
 
Yeah it's on it's side. And they were supposed to be 4x4's but for some weird reason Lowes sells 3x3's and labels them 4x4's. Took us a dang hour to figure out why our measurements weren't lining up right. it should be.. 28" tall by 48" long by .. 13.5" wide (That's the one that really messed us up because the tank wouldn't fit and we couldn't figure out why it was only measuring 11")

We got pretty lucky as my roomie's mom owns the Trailer court near suncity furnature out near 54 to El paso, and so we have about a million and a half tools sitting around.

I was going to get my rock from bulkreefsupply but I hadn't heard of macro rock so I will for sure look there. I had also picked out http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=CS0022&child=CS0022&utm_source=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=mdcsegooglebase2&utm_content=CS0022 This for my sand, I was going to get 3 bags of that and 1 10lb bag of live sand later on when I was ready to start adding life to the aquarium.

Just sort of a curiosity I'd been having. Do you think sand from white sands would work for an aquarium? I have no intention of going out there and trying to smuggle 50lbs of it out but I bet it would look very nice in a reef aquarium.
 
White sands sand for sure will not work it is gypsum sand and should not be used. They might not like you taking buckets from the dunes even if you were crazy enough to try.The color would look nice as it is brilliant white.

For the sand you picked it will work just fine, and I think I have some of that mixed in mine, but you may want to look for a sand with a rounder profile rather than angular. there are many threads that go over this so I won't go over it as it can get detailed and opinionated. Either way what you have picked will work just fine and my sand personally is a miss mash of sizes from having so many setups, over time my sand just got mixed into the next type and so on till I was left with a mixture of different sizes. Keep it clean and it won't matter.

On the wood size yes wood sold in stores is never the size it says. I have no clue why this is but for instance a 2X4 is actually closer to a 1.5X 3.5. I'm sure it varies with distributer but I know they are always like that.
 
Also remember you either want around 1inch or 5-6inch for a deep sand bed. the middle range won't really be benificial. 1inch is more for a looks and the 5-6inch deep sand bed is meant as a form of filtration for your system. There are of course advacates for both types as many things are in the hobby. On my frag system I use a remote deep sand bed in my sump. Fish selection can also determine what depth you would need.
 
I actually ended up getting a fairly nice deal from Marco rocks. It's 40lb of Key Largo rock and 40lbs of aragonite sand for 118$. The website says the rock is very porous and lightweight, and i picked a fine grain sand. Only thing that's inconvenient about that is that it's shipping from Florida and FedEx is being delayed by the tropical depression. My rock won't be here until the 3rd(optimally). And I have no idea about the sand. But that should hopefully be enough time to finish most of the stand, and get it stained.

On a side note do you know how much Ro/DI water is from the mill? And how much should I pick up? Just 55 gallons or do I need to stock up on 10 extra gallons ?
 
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