a few "newb" questions

[Pea-brain]

Hi! I'm new here. I've been researching the mantis shrimp for about a week. They seem extremely interesting and I have plans to set up a tank and keep one. unfortunately I'm not an experienced aquarist. I've been keeping a FW shrimp tank for about a month or 2, and have decided it may be time for my next project. Of course I will still take care of my shrimp, but have found myself obsessed with stomatopods. it may be a number of months before I can actually get 1. I need some money, and to buy materials etc. , and my obsession may fade over the time. I usually get excited and plan to get a pet, research it, and then my interest fades as time goes by. Then again FW shrimps was a little fad of mine, I went and got the tank anyway and am still loving them (The majority of my vocabulary are the words macro, stomatopod, scyllarus, peacock, caridina, red nose, pleopods, etc.)

Anyways I am planning this tank and have a few questions. So far my plan is to get a 20 gallon, a simple over the back power filter, some sand and rocks/pebbles for the bottom (In the shrimp hobby tahitian moon sand, which is a black sand, is popular because it brings out colors. Would this be a good idea?), a tube of some kind for a cave, a air pump and air stone, a bucket with a heater for mixing water, a refractometer, and that is it. Am I missing something? (aside from small things like a heater?) Also I have no plans to buy a skimmer or anything fancy unless necassary. I plan to do partial water changes once a month.

As for the species I choose, I would like a large stomatopod that is active, powerful, aggressive, hardy, easy to get and preferably diurnal. Color isn't a large factor to me. It seems that the best choice is a peacock shrimp, O. scyllarus. The molting problems scare me a bit though. I will be feeding mostly small inverts, frozen foods, pellets (if accepted) and I may start breeding shrimp as a food source. Occasionaly, for my amusement, I will feed emerald mithrax crabs, other good sized inverts and FW goldfish that have been fed well. I was wondering what a FW fish/invert will do when thrown into SW? I would imagine it convulsing and twitching. I was also wondering if it was worth it to buy Live Rock? could I use the curing process to cycle the aquarium? Does cycling a SW tank take much longer than a FW tank? other than salt is there any extreme differences between SW and FW tanks? I know these questions seem very newbish but I am pretty new to this. I'll admit I have put much more work into researching the animal instead of the environment. If I asked a question that has been answered before could you please point me in the right direction? thank you. And I'm sorry I'm a long winded typer.

 

[Diet Plain]

With mantis shrimps, and any other type of SW tank, I would try to get a good filtration going on the aquarium, just to give the animal good water quality. I don't know anything about the moon sand, I would just use live sand and some Liverock or Baserock depending on how much money you can spend. I've fed some FW fish to my Frogfish, they dont seem to spasm but swim pretty slow. The Odontodactylus Scylarrus is a very colorful mantis shrimp but I would recommend a 25+g tank for one, just to have a good amount of room.

 

[Pea-brain]

Thanks! I'm thinking I might be able to grab a 30 gallon if I sift through the classifieds for a good deal. Another question I forgot: Is any lighting preferable? I am probably going to get some LR and LS (no more than 25% of the tank is using Live Sand though. This stuff is expensive!) and I want the organisms to grow well. So will a normal aquarium light do? With some LR and LS the filtration need should cut down and I could probably get away with a 30-40$ canister filter. Or i could splurge and buy a 90$ protien skiimmer/chemical filtration unit. if I get a protien skimmer I don't need as many water changes, right? if it doubles the amount of time between water changes I would seriously consider it......

[edit] BTW link to Tahitian moon sand

 

[Pea-brain]

Ok, heres how the setup is planned right now: 30 gallon tank, Cheap protien skimmer from aquabid, normal aquarium lighting, 20-25 gallon "package" from TBS, crushed coral to fill rest of tank, cheap 55 gallon air pump from aquabid, a refractometer, misc. items and 1 peacock mantis shrimp.

Also, with a little luck I should have the aquarium started up in 3-4 months! Also, out of curiosity what is the name of the large mantis shrimp from california that hits with the power of a small calibur bullet? If its on Roy's list all I need is the Scientific name. Thanks Again!

 

[caynus]

Hi Pea-brain,
Firstly good on ya for asking so many questions, too many people in this hobby just jump right in.

Secondly, I would suggest getting a skimmer for your tank BUT still continue doing regular water changes. Water parameter quality is a must for mantis shrimp. They are messy feeders and produce quite large amounts of waste, which means a skimmer is almost essential, especially in a smaller 29G, or with a large mantis like O. scylarrus (peacock mantis).

The O.S. is also the mantis from Cali famed for having a 'punch' as powerful as a .22 bullet, although you'd have to have a pretty large one for it to hit like that.

Thirdly, FW fish, especially goldfish, really arent good feeder animals for SW animals. They lack alot of the macronutrients SW animals need. A mantis would definetely prefer a crab or some smaller shrimp anyway in my opinion.

Lastly, when FW fish are put in SW they just get a little bit and drowsy and slow and then they just die after a while. They die because the water content in their body is literally sucked out into the surrounding saltier water. This also happens in SW fish, but they have developed methods to replace and retain this huge water loss.
If you have some spare time or are interested, look up the topic 'osmoregulation'. It explains what i've just said but in more detail and clearer Its pretty interesting, and quite useful in the aquarium hobby.

Well good luck, keep us posted and ask as many questions as you want!

Caynus

 

[Pea-brain]

Thanks alot! It's always great when people are as helpful as you. I often find myself nervous when I post on a new forum because I'm afraid people will get annoyed. I looked it up on wikipedia. Good to know. From what I learned in science I thought the fish would either freak out or deflate from the water being pulled out by the salt. So FW fish aren't good for SW inverts huh? Thats too bad cause they are alot cheaper. That would also mean I can't set up a small FW ghost shrimp breeder tank for food. I may be able to get an in tank refugium to breed food though. (Translation: a small plastic box hanging inside the tank with holes drilled in the side) Could someone suggest something that is easy to breed and doesn't require much room?

As for the water changes would a 20% water change once a month be good enough? I am getting a 50 gallon amore protien skimmer. that will work, right? I keep thinking that since it is an invert like my shrimp it won't make much waste, and water changes with salt water kind of scare me. The cost of salt, and the chance that I will make a huge mistake that will kill all life in my tank is a scary thought. It is not nearly that scary with FW. Fill jug, put in dechlorinator, let sit till room temp, Siphon water from tank, dump in water.

Rofl. My friend is joking about playing a new game called "Stick your hand in the mantis tank and whoever gets a trip to the hospital loses":mad2: :rollface:

 

[caynus]

Hi,

Its not a probably helping out, everyone on reefcentral is really helpful and are only too happy to help out. So ask any questions and its sure to get answered, especially in this forum, we are all kind of obsessed.

Back to your reply though, yeah FW fish do lose alot of their body fluids due to mass exodus of body fluids when placed into salty water but it is hardly recognisable in most fish from what i've witnessed.

Alot of people feed their fish and inverts a small FW shrimp called ghost shrimp which i imagine is the shrimp your talking about. I think that they are used for as a supplementary food as opposed to their constant food supply, due to them being FW. Many other mantis keepers on here use store bought prawns (i'm from Australia, lol) or shrimp as they are better known and soak them in selcon which is a vitamin enriched substance. They also use frozen mysid shrimp cubes soaked in the same type of stuff for regular feedings.

There is species of SW shrimp called a white shrimp, or a vannamei prawn as I know them, either way their proper name is Penaeus vannamei . These are commonly sold by wholesalers such as liveaquaria.com and marinedepotlive.com.

I'm not sure how easy they are to breed, but with your experience i'm sure you could give them a go. These could be used a regular food source for a mantis for sure, plus they can grow pretty large too, and would interesting animals in themselves, but when immature they are still small so they wouldn't need heaps of room to move.

As for water changes, a 10% change every week is better than a 20% change every fortnight. Do them as regularly as possible, but i would say 10% a fortnight would be pretty much a minimum for a healthy mantis. Measuring salt is actually pretty easy, get yourself a hydrometer, or a refractometer if you can spare the dollars, both will last for ages you will use them continuously in the salt water hobby.

Well i hope this helped. Dont be afraid to ask if you want to know anything else.

Cayne

 

[Pea-brain]

I just realized that I have a 10 gallon tank just sitting around with nothing in it (Ok not true. it has a small Unidentified macrobrachium shrimp in it, but I don't really want it) And I am finding myself pulled towards that Gonodactylus smithii/ternatensis at divers den. That would make a good practice aquarium for my O. Scyllarus and I could probably set it up for under a 100$. All I need is a filter, heater, hood and sand. Snag a few handfulls of livesand from my LFS, maybe a small LR, put in some non living sand and maybe for a burrow I could use legos. I have a bucket from when I was like 9 and I'm pretty sure they are aquarium safe. I know some people put them in with octopusses. 25% water change bi-monthly.......somebody ought to talk me outta this.......uh oh. too late

Oh. You posted that just as I was writing this. Now I have to choose between the mantis and turning that tank into a breeding tank. sigh. I'm a few inches away from deciding to add a 5 gallon refugium next to my O. scyllarus tank. In any case the shrimp probably have larval stages and need micro food in the water column such as brine shrimp, or "fake" food such as golden pearls. I could do a 10% every week I guess. Sounds easy enough for a 10 gallon (I can mix up a gallon of saltwater!). Wow. you live in australia? Hows the fish stores over there?:fish1: Also has anyone ever ordered from pets-warehouse.com? Because that is where I plan to get my O. scyllarus from. Thanks again!!:wavehand:

 

[Pea-brain]

I forgot. I found this site, and was wondering what mantis it is. I think it is a Gonodactylid, based on the size. I'm guessing, based on the pictures Dr. Roy's list that it is G. smithii, G. viridis, or G. Graphurus.
Of course for all I know it is a spearer:lol: Here is the Link

I tried to post a pic but it didn't work. Thanks!

 

[Msby12]

well, the mantis in the picture is a smasher,

2nd the mantis you order from that site most likely isn't the one in the picture, that's probably just a generic photo they use.

3rd O.Scyllarus isn't from California, The one you're thinking of is probably tan with a bluish tail and yellowish dactyls and it's called Hemisquilla Californiensis, but both can punch with bullet force, (along with other LARGE smashers)

4th, Live Aquaria.com has a very nice blue mantis, i think it's a smasher but eh, i'm hardly an expert http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?ddid=13165&siteid=20

Divers den section on that site gives actual photos of the specimen

hope i helped out somewhat!

 

[Pea-brain]

The divers den mantis was decided to be a Either a G. smithii or G. ternatensis by Dr. Roy in this post. I also realize that it is a "stock photo" but I figured that the mantises they have are probably all bought from the same source and area so if you identified that one you have a decent chance that you will get the same species as is shown in the stock photo. Then again there is a chance that it could be a photo that they thought looked nice and used it, which is what i think you wer implying. If that is the case you have no chance of knowing what mantis you are getting. In fact i think I will email them and ask them where they get their supply from.....Also thanks Msby12. I didn't think O. Scyllarus was from California. I should probably get some sleep though. It is 3:35 am here and I have to go to school in 3 and 1/2 hours.

 

[Pea-brain]

Scratch that last post. I will not email them because they are in California, and I am in maine. They do not ship Livestock anymore. Therefore I have suddenly lost interest. Funny how that works.

 

[Pea-brain]

New Mantis Shrimp at Liveaquaria's diver's den! Old one gone Someone should Identify that mantis, I thinks. I'm guessing that if it is a Gonodactylaceus that it is a G. Falcatus, or G. Graphuras. But (And I'm not positive) I read somewhere that P. ciliata is one of the few Mantis shrimp that have a pure yellow morph. But that would make it a spearer.

 

[Msby12]

looks like a pseudosquilla ciliata, i've got a green one in a 24 gal nano cube, and he's very active and interesting! and i don't have to worry about the glass breaking! you could consider that one, unless there's something about crabs being smashed instead of fish being impaled that you wanted to see

 

[Pea-brain]

Hi all. Just thought I'd give an update as to the status of my mantis setup. You know, in case you were wondering (And I know you weren't ) It turns out I got a Playstation 3 which I thought was soldout throughout the US. Well that means my X-mas present was not the 30 gal mantis setup I wanted. However the PS3 is awesome (I'm actually posting this from it ) When i get my job I'll probably convert my 10 gallon to a SW tank and stick a N. Wennerae. I'll stick round the forum till then, so this is not the last you'll hear of me. Sorry to resurect this old thread but I saw no reason to make a new one.