A few questions Re: Mangroves.

[moriarty]

I decided to start from scratch and ordered a few mangrove propagules. I received quite a few more propagules than I actually ordered, and am wondering about planting density (Can't seem to find much information about this).

Here's a pic of how I have them situated so you can get a better idea. (please excuse the cloudy water - happens when I have to get into the pool to work on something). There are 25 propagules in a container which holds roughly 2 cubic feet of oolitic sand. Some arrived with roots, while the majority do not yet have them. If it's necessary to thin out this grouping, I'd like to do so before the roots really start to grow. My goal is to have one central mangrove "island", but I can always do 2 or 3 smaller groupings if this would be better for the health of the plants.


Thanks for looking, and thanks in advance for any advice

 

[Michael Hoaster]

I know very little about mangroves, but of course that won't stop me from advising you anyway!

I was just going to suggest you make it a competition. Give them all until a certain date, then pick the healthiest ones, and get rid of the rest. Good luck!

 

[moriarty]

I know very little about mangroves, but of course that won't stop me from advising you anyway!

I was just going to suggest you make it a competition. Give them all until a certain date, then pick the healthiest ones, and get rid of the rest. Good luck!

Definitely an option! I probably shouldn't assume that all of the propagules are going to grow successfully either. - Btw, love your Caribbean seagrass biotope! I read on here more often than I post, and have been following for some time.

 

[moriarty]

My other question is in regards to lighting for the mangroves (was going to include in my original post, but had to run before I could do so).

This is a pic of my system so you can see what I have for lighting. I get about 3-4 hours of natural sunlight from a south facing window, but it's pretty inconsistent based on the time of year/day. I'm currently running a RAB lighting LED flood 6500K (recessed into the ceiling), along with a Kessil A360WE suspended about 30" above the mangroves (75% color, 100% intensity). I'm thinking about adding some additional lighting specifically for the mangroves and wanted to get some suggestions. Am leaning toward picking up a Kessil "Amazon Sun" or three, but am definitely open to other suggestions if you have any!

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Any of those lighting options sounds good to me. That is a cool tank!

Thanks for the compliment on my thread! Stop by and post something, anything! The macro forum has been awfully quiet lately…

 

[Ron Reefman]

I play with mangroves a fair amount. We pick them up off the beach and grow them in a couple of my tanks. But my typical routine is to let them grow for a year, maybe two and then remove them and start over. They get too tall and end up growing into the led fixtures which need to be where they are for the coral. Mangrove propagules are free here and easy to replace.

The early roots are pretty stout and can handle being pulled on when trying to separate new propagules. I've grown as many as 8 or 10 in a small container with just saltwater for months. But the roots do get quite tangled.

In a 2 cubic foot container you could start them all, but in time they will end up competing for space. I'd suggest you try 10 or 12 and be prepared for one or two not to survive long term (2 to 4 months). That would give you 8 to 12 growing and even that density may be a bit too many after a year or 18 months. Of course that depends on how well they grow. You could also just suspend a few in the water and let the roots grow in the open. They will survive that for a year or two anyway, maybe much longer.

I assume this is a saltwater system? If so, you may find the leaves need to be washed (it rains a lot in the sub-tropics) as the water evaporated out of the leaves will leave behind a salt residue that can burn and kill the leaves if left for long periods of time.

They are like most other plants and use warm white light for photosynthesis. Although I currently have 2 growing under quite cool white led fixtures.

 

[moriarty]

I play with mangroves a fair amount. We pick them up off the beach and grow them in a couple of my tanks. But my typical routine is to let them grow for a year, maybe two and then remove them and start over. They get too tall and end up growing into the led fixtures which need to be where they are for the coral. Mangrove propagules are free here and easy to replace.

The early roots are pretty stout and can handle being pulled on when trying to separate new propagules. I've grown as many as 8 or 10 in a small container with just saltwater for months. But the roots do get quite tangled.

In a 2 cubic foot container you could start them all, but in time they will end up competing for space. I'd suggest you try 10 or 12 and be prepared for one or two not to survive long term (2 to 4 months). That would give you 8 to 12 growing and even that density may be a bit too many after a year or 18 months. Of course that depends on how well they grow. You could also just suspend a few in the water and let the roots grow in the open. They will survive that for a year or two anyway, maybe much longer.

I assume this is a saltwater system? If so, you may find the leaves need to be washed (it rains a lot in the sub-tropics) as the water evaporated out of the leaves will leave behind a salt residue that can burn and kill the leaves if left for long periods of time.

They are like most other plants and use warm white light for photosynthesis. Although I currently have 2 growing under quite cool white led fixtures.

Thank you for the info!

I probably should have included a little more information about the system in my original post. Pool is FOWLR (10' round X 30") and has been up and running for about 2.5 years. As for lighting, there are no corals, so there is no need to have lights suspended at a specific distance from the water (can move them up if needed as the mangroves grow).

I top the pool off twice weekly with RO water, so giving the leaves a good rinse will be an easy part of my normal maintenance routine.

I used to live in South Florida as well (miss living down there, especially in the winter time), and a big part of my motivation for including mangroves in the pool comes from making the drive down through the Keys. Thought it would be neat to attempt to recreate some of the mangrove "islands" that grow just off shore. I'm going to take your recommendation and thin out the existing container to include 10 or so propagules, and plant the remaining in a few additional containers (2-5 plants ea) to form a small island chain.

One more pic of the pool. The additional containers are going to be planted in an arc on top of the LR. Again, please excuse the cloudy water. I'll try to update this thread as things progress.

 

[Michael Hoaster]

Love that tank! Is that a French Angel?

A thought: If I was adding mangroves to a tank like yours, I would hide a large pot in the LR and fill it with dirt or fancy garden soil. I would only plant one mangrove in it. It seems when people plant a bunch together, they limit each other. One tree can grow big pretty roots, with no competition for space and nutrients.

Enlarging the window could help. Natural light is awesome and it would be great to have more. Or maybe a sun tunnel thingy. Much easier to just add lights, but it's a thought.

Keep us posted!

 

[moriarty]

Love that tank! Is that a French Angel?

A thought: If I was adding mangroves to a tank like yours, I would hide a large pot in the LR and fill it with dirt or fancy garden soil. I would only plant one mangrove in it. It seems when people plant a bunch together, they limit each other. One tree can grow big pretty roots, with no competition for space and nutrients.

Enlarging the window could help. Natural light is awesome and it would be great to have more. Or maybe a sun tunnel thingy. Much easier to just add lights, but it's a thought.

Keep us posted!

Thanks!!

Yeah, The French angel has been with me for about 1.5 years now. I acquired him when he outgrew his previous owner's tank. He's put on a couple inches and quite a bit of girth since I've had him. He's an extremely friendly fish, and is always front and center come feeding time!

I have the space to try several different configurations with the mangroves, and may have to try a larger pot with a single shrub as you suggested. I have several dozen bags of oolitic aragonite sand on hand (was originally going to use it as my main substrate, but after adding a few bags and having the water take an exceptionally long time to clear up, I went with a slightly larger grain). Also have lots of terra cotta pots of various sizes that I use in my non-medicated quarantine tanks. Will try to work on it a bit this weekend.

Would be nice to have a larger window for more natural sunlight, however the pool is in my basement, and I couldn't really enlarge the egress without undertaking a serious construction project. I can always add more LEDs though!

 

[Ron Reefman]

I love the tank as it is so different than 99% of the tank people keep (even me). But that's why I have a display refugium on my main display system and my other tank is a shallow reef that will be all kinds of stuff I can find locally in the Gulf and in the Keys.

So you used to be in South Florida, and now? I grew up in Michigan and Ohio and when the company I worked for told me I had to transfer to St Paul Minnesota, I resigned and moved to SW Florida. Smartest move I ever made and glad I was forced into it!

 

[moriarty]

I love the tank as it is so different than 99% of the tank people keep (even me). But that's why I have a display refugium on my main display system and my other tank is a shallow reef that will be all kinds of stuff I can find locally in the Gulf and in the Keys.

So you used to be in South Florida, and now? I grew up in Michigan and Ohio and when the company I worked for told me I had to transfer to St Paul Minnesota, I resigned and moved to SW Florida. Smartest move I ever made and glad I was forced into it!

Thank you! The pool is always a work in progress, but it's been a fun project, and definitely a great way to escape from winter!

I also have a 120 gallon "Florida reef" that I've been contemplating plumbing inline to the pool. I of course had to order all of my livestock, as I'm no longer fortunate enough to be able to collect my own, which was one of my favorite things about living down there. It's not the most exciting set up to most people, being without fish and not a whole lot of activity, however I do spend quite a bit of time watching the progression of growth from the cultured rock.

This is a pic of the first batch of LR just after it arrived

And another taken a few months later with a bit more rock.

Great call on passing up the transfer to MN and moving to a more hospitable climate! Most people would not have had the guts to do that! As for me, I also grew up in Michigan, and after college moved down to SE Florida (Boca Raton) for work. Am now back in Michigan helping out with my family's company. I do have a good amount of freedom with work though, and make it back down a few times per year. My wife prefers to fly, but one of these days I'll have to talk her into making the drive so I can do a little collecting again!

 

[JZinCO]

Very nice! Did you say where the rock came from?

 

[moriarty]

Very nice! Did you say where the rock came from?

Thanks!

Rock is from floridaliverock.com. Was packaged very well, and the vast majority of the hitchhikers (corals, gorgonians, macro... etc...) survived being shipped overnight.

 

[JZinCO]

Thanks. I've had this company along with TBS and gulf live rock in mind for whenever I buy rock in the future.
Did any stony corals or gorgs hitchhike? Do I see starlet coral in two spots?

 

[moriarty]

Thanks. I've had this company along with TBS and gulf live rock in mind for whenever I buy rock in the future.
Did any stony corals or gorgs hitchhike? Do I see starlet coral in two spots?

Yeah, all of the corals/gorgs in the pics were hitchhikers. I've added nothing besides the rock to this tank (at least not yet). A few of the corals that I have been able to ID are Rose corals (Manicina spp.), Cladocora, Phyllangia spp, and Siderastrea spp. Along with the stony corals, I received 2 different gorgonian species, lots of different types of sponge growth, various macro algae, inverts, tunicates, and a few species of bivalves. If you are looking for a particular hitchhiker, it couldn't hurt to contact the companies that you mentioned to see if they can accommodate requests based on current availability.

 

[JZinCO]

Thanks Moriarty. I know this is a bit off topic for the macroalgae sub but I would love to hear more about your tank as it progresses. Guit's tank is an inspiration: http://166.78.194.232/forums/showthread.php?t=2469373