A heads up.....

[azlivingreef]

I was at ATR today and noticed Flat Worms on there coral tanks. It looked like alot of there SPS were having STN or RTN problems. I mean this in no disrespect to ATR as I buy my dry goods there. I would just hate for anyone to get these unwanted pest and ruin some of there corals especially if some of you do not dip or QT their corals... Anyone else go there and see the same thing?

 

[Philwd]

Were these the red or brown flat worms? Or did you see some AEFW?

BTW the good SPS is in the back. The stuff you saw has been there quite a while and has been slowly going downhill.

As said in another thread, and echo'd by Skip, no matter where you get your corals dip and QT.

 

[azlivingreef]

these were brown worms.. planaria more than likely

 

[sir_dudeguy]

they are orangish brown and have been there for quite a while i think. I've been going about once a week (every weekend) for the last few weeks and every time i've been there i've seen them all on the glass on some of the tanks.

 

[clkwrk]

I always add flatworm exit to my bags from there. Skip has also done so for me .

 

[soni]

skip says he doesnt treat becasue they will become immune. I left wondering how they could become immune if you kill them all, then on a new shipment get more in, then kill them all. so on and so on. I have a couple people I know buy coral from there and then have to treat their tanks. You would think that if it is known they would at least tell people to dip them before putting them in the tank.

just my .02

 

[clkwrk]

I too tell every customer every single time they are in is asking alot .

IMO the end responsibility is ours . Almost every saltwater book out there stresses the importance of a QT tank for both fish and corals.

Also if you can't look into the tanks and see them for yourself you need to do some more reading and research on coral pests and hitchikers .

Also if people think that the stores take care of all their pest your wrong . Only one store has acted on my spotting of a pest in their tanks and it was pets inc but that was for red bugs an easy fix. However the stores that have Monti nudis,sea spiders, acro eating crabs aka blue eye bandits,sundial snails and zoa nudis still have them . Again our responsibility to QT/Dip/ and inspect.

Also I will add yes they can build an immunity to the FWE. So with that in mind would you rather get flatworms with no built up immunity or flatworms that have no immunity because they aren't treating the tanks monthly/bi monthly.

I will take the ones that will die with the correct dosage of FWE anyday over the ones that have built an immunity or the one s it take double dose or more to kill.

JMO

 

[Pyrrhus]

I have actually treated the systems with flatworm exit at a double dosage twice and still had some survive and reproduce. Sometime soon I will probably hit the systems with a 5x dose of FWE in one last attempt before giving up on treating them in system.

 

[sir_dudeguy]

I left wondering how they could become immune if you kill them all, then on a new shipment get more in, then kill them all

probably because it wouldnt kill them all with the first go. Sure it'll get the majority...but out of all the hundreds in there...wouldnt you think there'd be at least a few to survive? And once those ones start breeding, the babies would grow more and more tolerant to the stuff or something like that. I'm pretty sure thats how many different things become immune to many chemicals (or anything for that matter).

How does any animal (or person) become immune to anything? Now that the time comes to think of an example, I cant, but there are many things that people and animals have grown immune to just due to being around the stuff. To me it makes sense that they might become immune to it eventually anyways

 

[frontosa_man80]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8883265#post8883265 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by soni
skip says he doesnt treat becasue they will become immune. I left wondering how they could become immune if you kill them all, then on a new shipment get more in, then kill them all. so on and so on. I have a couple people I know buy coral from there and then have to treat their tanks. You would think that if it is known they would at least tell people to dip them before putting them in the tank.

just my .02

if your buying corals from anyone, you dip. it doesnt matter if someone told you or not, its your tank and your risking it by not treating it before hand.

And skip saying " he doesnt treat becasue they will become immune" means that is a lot of water to treat the whole system and some will not die and next time, there systems will become immune to the treatment.

if you read almost every other day someone gets something from a coral because they didnt treat and QT to check if the treatment was affective. if you dont have a QT set up, then your set up to fail.

TREAT,QT, and ENJOY.

-jesse

 

[Fliger]

I don't know man, I agree with everyone - treat, treat, treat. But it does seem like they should be eliminated. If an LFS knowingly has pests - there should be a sign there - or they should tell EVERY customer that the problem is there. To even sell one coral from that system and not notify the customer (or treat it for free), IMO, would be extremely irresponsible. I QT/inspect everything but we web-reefgeeks are the minority of reefers. There have been a couple things I wanted but I didn't buy them because of the FW's. I treat everything - but treating is my last measure of defense. I would never buy a coral from a system that had visible pests.

Not a knock against ATR at all, I think they're probably the best store in town for many things. I just hope the employees have strict orders to tell every customer about them, and they should treat them for free. Not treating would be like buying a brand new car with a scratch, and the salesperson telling you where the auto body shop is and you'd have to cover the bill.

But knowing Skip, I'm sure its policy to inform the customers.

 

[soni]

i wouldnt expect someone to tell every customer. But if your bagging a coral for a customer then i think you should say, hey there are flat worms here this is what you need to do to get rid of them.

 

[Jayreefer]

The problem with consently treating flat worm is that they become immune to the meds and then you have super flatworms in your tank. If ATR treated its whole system today then on the next shippment of corals it would have flatworms again. Flatworms are easly treated when we bring the corsl home. I would never not buy a coral due to common flatworms. It would be diffrent if it was the Acro Flatworms.

Also the flatworms are coming from the suppliers and not the LFS. If every LFS treated every coral for everything before they sold it then we wouldn't need to QT and we would pay 3-4x the amount we are paying now.

More serious preditors are always treated at ATR. I know because I have held Skip get the meds for one type.

 

[Fliger]

I guess thats what I meant. Tell every customer who is buying a coral out of that system. I think the customer should be told - prebagged. Although as a marketing person, we do this all the time. "Thanks for buying that leather bag, make sure you get some conditioner as well." or "Enjoy your open brain, make sure to get some Salifert FWE while you're at it."

Anything less is KNOWINGLY sending someone home with flatworms. I can't imagine that happens.

 

[Fliger]

Jay - I disagree because I go to LFS all over. Everytime I travel on business and I'm in LA all the time. I don't see FW's in LFS very often. Only a few times, actually. The infestation in those tanks is one of the worst I've ever seen. Maybe I just caught it on a bad day.

But if their business decision is to keep them there, thats fine. As long as they inform every single customer who is contemplating buying a coral from that system. Anything less would be incredibly irresponsible.

Am I alone in that line of thinking? Or does someone really think its OK to send a newbie home with a coral - and not tell them that there are FW's - and eventually they will need to be treated?

 

[Jayreefer]

I agree. I found out about flatworms from ATR. And yet to this day I have never purchased FWE. My 4-line wrasse loves them. I have also dealt with many vendors working in the trade. Most of witch are not the best vendors and I have witnessed many flatworms in many fish bags.

 

[Fliger]

LOL, free food. :lol: Glad to hear they informed you. I wouldn't really expect less from ATR.

 

[frontosa_man80]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8883945#post8883945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger
.....But if their business decision is to keep them there, thats fine. As long as they inform every single customer who is contemplating buying a coral from that system. Anything less would be incredibly irresponsible.

Am I alone in that line of thinking? Or does someone really think its OK to send a newbie home with a coral - and not tell them that there are FW's - and eventually they will need to be treated?

i agree with you 100% dave, but its a double edge sword. consumers need to be aware of what to look for alot of the times too. i know sometimes store employees are so busy it may slip there minds.

still i agree we should be informed that there is a "small" problem that needs addressed before we buy, that applys to everything(not just corals).

-jesse

 

[clkwrk]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8883945#post8883945 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger


Am I alone in that line of thinking? Or does someone really think its OK to send a newbie home with a coral - and not tell them that there are FW's - and eventually they will need to be treated?

But I also thinks its wrong for a newbie to buy a coral they can't id or know proper care for .

If I had done all of my research before buying stuff . I would have been saved from all the miss guidance and false info that was given by all the stores in my early time . I can't count how many times I was told something would be compatabile when it really wasn't . One of my first lps was an elegance which was said to be a very easy to keep coral :lol: that would do fine in my 2 month old 30g with 1x65w pc and no skimmer.

Maybe each store needs signs saying remember to QT to stay pest free. Or practice safe reefkeeping by QTing all new fish and corals. And a reminder that almost all live rock will contain hitchikers good and bad.

 

[soni]

if everyone was informed then LFS's would be out of business. Such a small amount of business is generated by people that are informed. It's the ones that kill things all the time and keep coming back for more that keep lfs's up and running.