A heads up.....
- Thread starter azlivingreef
- Start date
Fliger
New member
I totally agree Chris. I think a sign would be great. But I think if there is one specific problem - and the store knows about it - they should inform their customers. I'm talking specifically to this exact situation. I don't know how a store could send home a coral with a pest without telling them. I'm assuming ATR has a little higher standard.
Yeah I agree Soni - companies of all sorts do that. Its in their business models. But not all stores.
But it sounds like ATR does inform their customers. It sounds like they treat all the corals that come out of that system. However, it did prevent me from buying a Lobo and a nice orange plate. I still would never buy a coral from an infected tank, but thats just me. Why take a chance. And again, the last two times I was there, the problem seemed to be worst than I'd ever seen at an LFS. I was really surprised.
Yeah I agree Soni - companies of all sorts do that. Its in their business models. But not all stores.
But it sounds like ATR does inform their customers. It sounds like they treat all the corals that come out of that system. However, it did prevent me from buying a Lobo and a nice orange plate. I still would never buy a coral from an infected tank, but thats just me. Why take a chance. And again, the last two times I was there, the problem seemed to be worst than I'd ever seen at an LFS. I was really surprised.
reeftnk101
In Memoriam
So why dont they just put a 6 line wrasse or a christmas wrasse in there coral tank to eat them. They could just leave him in there and not sell him and it would keep the population down.
clkwrk
Active member
I agree . But I doubt Pets inc stopped selling sps or told people they had red bugs. I doubt the other stores where I have seen zoa nudis, monti nudis and sea spiders have told their customers and they were informed by me that had these pests . During my last rounds I still seen all of these pests in the stores which I have mentiond in other threads in the past . I still to this day think All Aquatics had the worst case of zoa nudis and countless people got them from that shop with out ever being told . They were so high in numbers they were crawling on the front of the tank.
jerryz
New member
LFS's make arguments that what separates them from mail order. In fact the reason they have higher prices is that they incur the loss costs associated with prepping a live product that arrives in potentially less than perfect condition from the supplier.
As a result the LFS charges a premium over what can be found on the internet or at a FRAG meeting for incurring this risk. I would have to say that anything less than a vigilant and persistent effort to only present the healthiest strongest products possible is in actuality nothing more than an abrogation of their responsibility in regards to this this implied risk. Or they can sell at prices that are less to reflect reduced risks they incured and instead transferred to the consumer.
I do not disagree that a consumer that was informed of these risks making an informed decision may still decide to purchase the product. But typically there are pricing concessions demanded to reflect this situation. So I guess the real question is, does ATR's pricing structure and and seller disclosure allow for a true arms length transaction?
As a result the LFS charges a premium over what can be found on the internet or at a FRAG meeting for incurring this risk. I would have to say that anything less than a vigilant and persistent effort to only present the healthiest strongest products possible is in actuality nothing more than an abrogation of their responsibility in regards to this this implied risk. Or they can sell at prices that are less to reflect reduced risks they incured and instead transferred to the consumer.
I do not disagree that a consumer that was informed of these risks making an informed decision may still decide to purchase the product. But typically there are pricing concessions demanded to reflect this situation. So I guess the real question is, does ATR's pricing structure and and seller disclosure allow for a true arms length transaction?
clkwrk
Active member
Sorry stores have a mark up because they have bills associated with having a store like employees and electric. Plus I have seen stuff go for more at auctions than they cost in a store. I buy rocks of zoas for what a frag goes for at auction. IMO ATR shouldn't discount a healthy coral if flatworms are present in the displays. You want bargin shopping do it online and get what comes instead of choosing your exact corals. Either way online or local you should QT. Shops will always have some pests thats the way it is . Its up to us to stop them before the spread further than the stores.
jerryz
New member
Actually you never really addressed my argument, that was about economics. The other guys have overhead also. The largest differences are attributed to transport loss and associated risk.
Should consumers QT? absolutely! but that doesn't really have anything to do with economics argument. In fact even you stated that you wouldn't buy from a store with pests visible. So essentially you prove the economic argument even as you defend their behavior.
The truth is there is a price at which even with pests one will incur the risks.
Should consumers QT? absolutely! but that doesn't really have anything to do with economics argument. In fact even you stated that you wouldn't buy from a store with pests visible. So essentially you prove the economic argument even as you defend their behavior.
The truth is there is a price at which even with pests one will incur the risks.
soni
New member
Jerryz, I couldn't have put it more eloquent.
having worked in an LFS there margin more than makes up for loss and bills incurred.
Most of a LFS's profit is in fish not coral. For instance, an LFS can purchase, lets say, a show size Imperator Angel Red Sea. Transship cost from what I remember was around $50. That same angel will sell at an lfs for close to $500. I have seen them as cheap as $300 and at that, it is still a 500% markup. Even if 2 out of 10 come in doa or die they are still making so much over there margin. This can apply to coral as well. I have worked in and out of LFS since highschool up until I graduated college. Transship and stuff from CA have not gone up in price significantly.
having worked in an LFS there margin more than makes up for loss and bills incurred.
Most of a LFS's profit is in fish not coral. For instance, an LFS can purchase, lets say, a show size Imperator Angel Red Sea. Transship cost from what I remember was around $50. That same angel will sell at an lfs for close to $500. I have seen them as cheap as $300 and at that, it is still a 500% markup. Even if 2 out of 10 come in doa or die they are still making so much over there margin. This can apply to coral as well. I have worked in and out of LFS since highschool up until I graduated college. Transship and stuff from CA have not gone up in price significantly.
reeftnk101
In Memoriam
Looks like from this post there doing a bang-up job:uzi:
(maybe they're the wrong ones) :thumbsup:
Fliger
New member
Yeah, that was me.
I know how to take care of pests (afaik still pest free, famous last words :lol: ) - I just wouldn't buy from a tank that couldn't take care of such visible pests - because I doubt they'd take care of the unvisible pests. I use treatments as a last line of defense but even when I buy things here on RC, I get info on the tanks and ask specific questions about their tanks. Speaking of which, I have 3 deliveries today. I really agree with Chris and others - stores should educate more about treating corals. There are quite a few reefkeeper books that newbies read that spend hardly time (if any) on this subject. Maybe even a chart what to look out for. They'd even make some extra money on sales.
But I still think they should treat all corals coming out of that tank before they're sold. If they don't take the steps necessary to eradicate them, they should at least treat all corals before knowingly adding FW's to someone's tank.
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