A Living Room Reef: 90 Gallon Mixed Reef Build

I stripped the flesh off part of my green slimer by placing it too close to an MP40, so it's possible. Can you get a pick of the bird so we can see the flesh loss. It's just odd your SPS continue to suffer odd bouts of sickness.

You used all reef safe silicone when putting things together, right? Parts and materials used while building the sump and plumbing were all reviewed?
 
How's everything coming along Troub? Hope things are better :thumbsup:

I have my seri in really really high flow (a foot away, but directly in front of a mp40), its fine. However, I don't know how a colony that's already under stress, will react to flow. Sorry not much help there :(.
 
I stripped the flesh off part of my green slimer by placing it too close to an MP40, so it's possible. Can you get a pick of the bird so we can see the flesh loss. It's just odd your SPS continue to suffer odd bouts of sickness.

You used all reef safe silicone when putting things together, right? Parts and materials used while building the sump and plumbing were all reviewed?

I did get a picture of the birdsnest about 1/2 way to dead back when you asked about it. I just don't have it loaded up where I can post it yet and I only have a few spare minutes to pop in and update things. But now, the seri is pretty much a goner :sad2:

I still have no clue what killed it. It was in the same location (1/2 way down, partially shaded, no direct flow) it had been when it was perfectly happy looking. Alk and Ca have been stable. Mg was brought into line slowly over 2 weeks and has remained stable testing between 1280 and 1320 since I hit that level. The lighting was lowered back when we all discussed it and has remained at the same levels since.

Really the only changes were improving Mg levels and the new powerheads.

As for parts and materials. The tank, sump, equipment, hoses, zip ties, plastic hose clamps, and stuff were purchased brand new when I started the system. So unless the manufacturers used non-safe silicone or something, we should be all good there. We did re-use our 75 gallon freshwater tank that turned into our fuge. But that was emptied, cleaned, stored dry for months. Then was rinsed and went through the full 5 day fresh water leak test before draining and filling the system.

But all good thoughts for me to check on :thumbsup: Best to double check and eliminate anything that could be a possible problem.

How's everything coming along Troub? Hope things are better :thumbsup:

I have my seri in really really high flow (a foot away, but directly in front of a mp40), its fine. However, I don't know how a colony that's already under stress, will react to flow. Sorry not much help there :(.

Thanks for checking in Bello. :bounce3: Things are better and worse all at the same time. LOL :facepalm: As I mentioned, our seri that seemed to be doing great is now a nice pretty white toothpick.

The orange digi, which was showing GREAT signs of improvement has gone the way of the seri. I don't get that at all. It had great polyp extension (on the parts that were still hanging on). Which we hadn't seen for a long time. And then the darker skin started to kill off green algae on the skeleton and grow between those polyps. Then after about a month of continually looking better, it was all gone one morning after looking great the night before.

And that's the same thing I saw with the candy cane trumpet that was regrowing. It was looking great with tons of improvement... then I come home from work one day and all of the new tissue is gone on 1/2 of the polyps that were recovering. The other half still seem to be the same and slowly expanding.

It seems everything likes to take one last glorious month or two long breath and then die overnight. :mad2:

But at the same time we have some other successes. Our oddly fragged blastos have been growing new tissue nicely and are expanding and showing new growth where the tissue was cut. The big polyp is almost back to completely round with it's spikey edge look around the entire polyp. Our other single blasto polyp has been growing slowly and definitely gotten bigger. :thumbsup:

AND our hammer has double in sized when it is expanded during the day. I noticed recently that the hammer has developed a second mouth. So I'm looking forward to watching that polyp split over time.

Another fun discovery happened during moon-light hours. I caught a glimpse of some neon orange down near the sandbed on a rock. It's that orange Ric that was bleaching and shrinking no matter where it got placed. We had moved it over to this rock and it vanished. I thought it melted when we decided to try more direct light at the bottom of the tank (because being under an overhang, it continued to bleach and shrink). Looks like it crawled down into the rock and has now moved back out to rock/sand boarder. It is no longer as white and small as it was when it vanished. I wouldn't say it's healthy and thriving. But I wouldn't say it's bleached and withering away anymore either. Looks bigger and meatier and now has a soft pale orange coloration with a bit darker center.

Back when I thought things were going well with the Seri and orange Digi. I picked up a $20 pink monti-cap because I thought all was good and stable for 3 months there. Well, it started to bleach slightly after a week or two. Even though it was under an overhang about 2/3s down the tank. So I grabbed it and shoved it into the sandbed. It gets direct light, but almost buried into the sand. I haven't decided, but last night it seemed that the color had stopped fading and gotten a deeper color. Although maybe that is it's last breath like the others? I'm hoping not though. I saw PE on it this morning before leaving for work.

We have a PAR meter rental on its way right now. So I should get some PAR readings for my lighting very soon!!! :bounce3: That may answer lots of our questions. At this point, I'm guessing I've just been blasting my tank with way to much light. I've pretty much put off adding anything at all until I get things figured out and the stuff I have looks good.

We have been running a round of QT on a new fish to add though. I think we decided to avoid wrasses since we have the mandarin. And I'm going to work on getting my female mandy nice and fat before adding a male. So in place of a wrasse, we picked up a Royal Gramma to add in as a single fish and a nice splash of purple. So far the fish has appeared perfectly healthy going through hypo. No issues at all yet. I just started a Prazi-Pro treatment on it. At the end of next weekend, we should be ready to start raising the SG up to transfer to the DT.

So I guess I've just been dragging my feet waiting to see what happened to everything in the tank while the RG went through QT and we waited on the PAR rental. The general rule of thumb appears to be about 1/3rd of our corals love our tank. But our fish, shrimp, conchs, snails are all enjoying things!

I'm still a bit frustrated, but I guess you take the bad with the good. I tend to try and focus on the things that are growing to make myself feel better about the things that are dying in the same conditions. . .

But outside of reef keeping, life has been going pretty well! So I have a good feeling about all this. Because if everything else in life is getting better, my reef can't be far behind! :-)
 
Ok everyone. I've got to make this quick today. But here is my first question:

What are the effects of prolonged low PAR levels on corals? Like 100 and below...

Anyone ever tested, experimented, or discovered that their lighting was drastically underpowered for an extended period of time?

I'm not saying I built a bad fixture, but I definitely need to tweak my set up it seems like. I'm fairly positive I will be adding some optics (which I already have, just not installed) to my LEDs in order to punch higher PAR levels deeper into the tank.

I haven't thoroughly tested the tank yet. We just got the PAR rental delivered yesterday. But I did a really quick test this morning. Turned on just the left fixture lights and set the PAR sensor directly under the fixture (about 5-7 or so inches below) on top of my screen top for the tank. With the sensor not even under the water, I was getting a reading of around 120. I picked up the sensor and moved it closer to the fixture, and just before I hit the splash guard, the sensor had stepped up to around 400 in those 7 inches or so. And that was with BOTH my White/Color and Blue/UV channels on at the same time. At 30% for each string, I was barely hitting 60-80 sitting out of the water on the screen top.

This does make some sense to me since the strings are set up to run around 675 mA since I'm using mixed strings.

I did not let the lights warm up any or anything. It was an immediate reading. But just to make sure things weren't crazy with the rental unit, I went out to the Fuge and checked the LED spotlights out there. They were reading about 125 just under the water surface, about 150 above the class tops, and jumped up to 400's+ as I moved closer to the bulb.

So based off that quick test, I'm thinking I'll need to add the 80 degree optics I have for my LEDs. This should focus the light more into the tank and hopefully allow me to get that 80-120 level down at the sand bed and up to the 350-400 in the very top.

Just a guess, but from the looks of it, I've been getting around low 100's at the water surface, and I have no clue at the sandbed level. But it obviously would be lower then the 100's I'm getting at the screen tops.

When I have a few more minutes, I'll test the whole tank with both fixtures on and map what I'm getting at the current levels I've been running since I lowered them during the trouble shooting process. I believe I'm at w/c=30% and b/uv=50% peak. But I'll need to rig up a PVC pipe holder for the light sensor and take some readings.

Anyway, please feel free to chime or share any info if you've tested your lighting with a PAR meter. I'm really looking forward to trying to dial in the light rig this week/weekend. If we eliminate that and know the lighting is where it should be, that will narrow LOTS of things down and probably only be a matter of time before things start humming along! :beer:
 
My Par readings were low as well, some at 40-50 par on bottom sides.

Can't say if growth has been slower or not, but certainly sps won't die with the low par. Colors may be off.

I'd say on an average my corals are at 100 par, which is why I previously questioned the accuracy of the par meter when using leds, especially in the deep blue/violet spectrums
 
Hey Bello,

Thanks for the feedback. When you say "colors may be off." How might the colors be off when under chronic low PAR levels? Any chance LPS would shrink away to nothing under the low-lighting conditions? Just a learning opportunity there. I'll be working on dialing in our lighting this week to eliminate that as a concern.

Have you ever checked out this: http://www.apogeeinstruments.com/aquarium-par-meters/ - they have a +/- error % for most color spectrums that have been tested on their meter. This is the same PAR meter I'm using to test our lights.

Well, if it's not my lighting that is causing me problems, which we will guarantee this week. Then about the only thing left that I can think of could be elevated nutrients causing issues. I still have never tested Po4, but I've been monitoring No3 and it is typically showing from trace amounts (less then 5ppm) after water changes up to registering 10-15 sometimes pre water changes. But from my :reading:, elevated No3 and Po4 at those levels shouldn't be causing RTN/STN or bleaching. It should be browning out corals (like I think I was seeing with my LPS), specifically our plate coral.

What is everyone's opinion on what PAR levels I should target at the sandbed and top of the tank? I was going to shoot for around 90-110 towards the sandbed.

And I guess that's all I've got for now. I'll report back with more PAR info readings when I get some time to play with it again. :thumbsup:
 
Low PAR, for me, just meant less color. It was high par and low nutrients that damaged all my corals. Since I've stopped worrying about phosphate I haven't been able to bleach any corals, even a few acros getting 450 PAR. I have plenty of fish that eat algae, which helps a great deal. :)

Can you review your LED fixture again as far as the LED colors and how many are used? I have Maxspect Razors over my tank and my tank is as deep as yours, I think, just longer. At full brightness I get right around 100 PAR at the bottom corners, 300 - 450 up where I place my SPS. The fixture comes with 90 degree lenses but I tried the 120 as well and the PAR dropped significantly, so you may be ok once your lenses are added.

One other comment after quickly scrolling back and looking at your LED build; I would get rid of the red and green led's, they will spotlight like crazy after adding the lenses. I would add some warm white led's instead, 3000K or so, or one 3000K and one more Blue or perhaps true violet.
 
Low PAR, for me, just meant less color. It was high par and low nutrients that damaged all my corals. Since I've stopped worrying about phosphate I haven't been able to bleach any corals, even a few acros getting 450 PAR. I have plenty of fish that eat algae, which helps a great deal. :)

Can you review your LED fixture again as far as the LED colors and how many are used? I have Maxspect Razors over my tank and my tank is as deep as yours, I think, just longer. At full brightness I get right around 100 PAR at the bottom corners, 300 - 450 up where I place my SPS. The fixture comes with 90 degree lenses but I tried the 120 as well and the PAR dropped significantly, so you may be ok once your lenses are added.

One other comment after quickly scrolling back and looking at your LED build; I would get rid of the red and green led's, they will spotlight like crazy after adding the lenses. I would add some warm white led's instead, 3000K or so, or one 3000K and one more Blue or perhaps true violet.

Ok. Some more good info there :-) Thanks for the thoughts! :thumbsup:

Since you quit worrying about Po4, you haven't been able to bleach anything. Well that interesting. I've never tested Po4, and my sps do good for a short time (usually) and then bleach and/or RTN. As mentioned, the Pink Monti-Cap I added has already paled quite a bit. Maybe that's from the low light? I would call it bleaching, but I don't have enough experience to tell between bleaching, and pale/white coloration due to other issues. It is still alive, but I can't figure out why things just aren't happy.

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Lighting talk...

I stuck my arm in last night with the PAR meter. With my lights at 100% (all 4 channels), I'm getting about 5-50 PAR at the sandbed and about 140-160ish right below the water line. So I think it's safe to say we've eliminated blasting the corals with to much light as the issue for now.

I'm still going to work on attaching the optics this weekend and hopefully that will help quite a bit. As long as I can manage 50+ at the sand bed and 300-450 near the waterline I think I should be good and happy. I'm fairly certain most of my lenses are 80 degree if I remember correctly.

As you mentioned, I was concerned about spotlighting which is why I went with no lenses to start with. But looks like we'll be needing them.

I don't have any full green leds in there. I do have 2 cyan and the 2 deep red (one on each fixture). But I'm thinking I will leave the lenses off those and just let the color mix in for the look if I get spotlighting from those 2 colors.

Then add the optics to the Blue / Royal Blue / UV / Clear White / Neutral White. I chose to go with the neutral white over the warm white. The warm white spectrograph targets the yellow/green/ and light red spectrums to much for my taste. So I mixed in the NW to add a bit of that warmth to the clear whites. Then specifically targeted the deep red 660+ wavelength and cyan because according to my :reading: on some studies, corals will utilize those wavelengths more then the yellow/green/light red wavelengths. Which is primarily what the warm whites generate. Algae love warm whites though. I would definitely use them on a fuge light!

If I need to supplement with some additional Blue / UV, then I can program the RA unit to run the moonlight channels during the daytime instead of spending more money adding additional leds and having to re-balance and fine tune the strings again. Those have 2 Blue and 2 UV on each fixture that currently only run from about 9:15-11:15 at very low power. I have a feeling I should have more then enough potential light power to dial this in with the set up I have right now. Just need to fine tune the numbers and things. So I'd like to avoid going back and drastically modifying the set up if I can.

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water quality talk....

Other then that, I checked Alk mid-week and it was hovering on the high end of 8.0 still. So that hasn't changed. Mg and Ca were fine over last weekend. I'll probably re-test Mg again tomorrow or on the weekend to make sure it's still holding. But in general, "the big three" have been held in line (440-460, 1280-1320, and 8.) for the last few weeks since I got quiet and just observed. And Ca / Alk were in line and stable for a month or so before that. Mg is what I brought in line and stabilized for the last few weeks.

I did notice I've had some issues with my SG creeping up very slowly over time. So I know that could be an issue. But it has always been between 1.0255 and pushing close to 1.027. I've been trying to figure out why it is creeping up. I'm thinking all the Mg supplementing I was doing? So I'm working on solving that. But that fluctuation takes place over 2-3 weeks. Unfortunately with Kalk and Mg dosing, having an ATO is not holding SG perfectly stable in our system. That's a bit frustrating now that everything else is in line, the SG won't stay put. But the SG always stayed perfect before the big 3 were put into place. W.E.I.R.D.!!!!! :mad2:

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filtration / feeding talk...

For now, I've bumped up the skimmer a bit to run a little wetter. I've been pulling a cup to a cup and 3/4's each week lately. The skimmate is a dirty dark tea coloration. Very liquidy and wet with some sludge on the bottom and in the neck.

We upped our feeding slightly lately because all algae had started to die off. Still some cyano on the sandbed, but any regular green nusiance algae is more or less minimal / under control. So I'm wondering if the extremely low light and underfeeding is just starving things.

I'm also considering pulling the little bit of carbon I've been running. I don't run much, just hang some in a passive bag in the sump. I thought this would be good since I'm running a mixed reef. Pull out any slime chemicals and things that may upset SPS. But maybe I'm just stripping the water of to much. I'm not sure... any other thoughts?

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Cheers!!!! :beer:
 
Hey Troub, to me it sounds like you were starving things with low light and nutrients, but other than that I'm not much help sorry. Hopefully the more experienced will chime in soon.
Troub buddy you need to get things in order as I'm nearly ready for the coral war and need my fellow SPS newbie (well you have more experience in keeping them than I do) once Bigs has his tank Sorted and you've got to the bottom of the tank problems, we can start the very slow war:lol:
 
Hey Troub, to me it sounds like you were starving things with low light and nutrients, but other than that I'm not much help sorry. Hopefully the more experienced will chime in soon.
Troub buddy you need to get things in order as I'm nearly ready for the coral war and need my fellow SPS newbie (well you have more experience in keeping them than I do) once Bigs has his tank Sorted and you've got to the bottom of the tank problems, we can start the very slow war:lol:

Hey Fishy...

Right now, with my inexperience, I'm thinking like you. I did have some fluctuations back awhile ago when I started dosing Kalk and really trying to level off and maintain set parameters. So I can definitely attribute a few of our earlier failures to some residual fallout from that. But lately, for the last 2-4 months, things have been pretty stable and I'm thinking along the same lines as you. They were good and healthy for 2-3 months, or showing signs of recovery, then died off. While other pieces were still doing good and showing some growth. But no matter what the issue is, after this weekend, I'm feeling much better about tackling whatever it is and I think we're making some good progress on the tank.

And I wouldn't say I have much more experience keeping SPS right now. Maybe I'm more experience buying and torturing them :facepalm: :angryfire: My 1st saltwater system has only been up and running a year and a week now. 8/20 was our 1 year anniversary of filling a completely dry rock/sand set up with saltwater! But I know what you're saying. I think over the next weeks/months, I'm optimistic our system will start to shine a bit more.

Now onto an update of weekend fun! :bounce3:
 
All right, a big 3 day weekend of fishy fun for us. Here's what I was up to...

- Picked up a tube of this plastic epoxy to attach my optic lenses to the LEDs this weekend.
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- Extremely easy to use. Grabbed an old plastic lid (that was trash afterwards), squirted a couple equal sized blobs, mixed it with a toothpic, then swipped the toothpick along opposite edges of the lens. Let it dry for 5 minutes, and ta-da! Attached optic lenses!
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brH2b-FDG3DjcVAN67XWmJQyE6Rd7OSflg6BA9L1w6o=w868-h488-no

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- Look at that. One fixture all done!
iplnVuRDcrMiqininPde11YMxjiQ5q1JWABJgT6nrn4=w275-h488-no

- As I mentioned in a previous post. I opted to leave the optics off of the cyan and red chips on each light. Those are the 2 leds with no lenses.

- And look at that, I CAME UP SHORT... grumble... grumble... grumble...
20140830_193011.jpg

- Forgot I had added the 8 extra diodes when I added the moonlight circuits on. So this halted that progression and I immediately ordered more lenses to get this done. They should be here today or tomorrow.

- Just for fun, here is a shot of the fixture I ran out of lenses on. In order to not blind myself, I took a shot of just the 4 moonlights circuit turned on. You can see the lenses on the left side, and the no-lenses on the right.
wFz6V2QJXEN93uDtBNO5Fq2d_gSa-tD0wL_bkUY6qko=w868-h488-no

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- Here is the look of the tank with the moonlights kicked on to, whatever % I had them set on at the time me fiddling around with them...
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- With the optics, there's a bit of separation and banding in the moonlights, but I can live with that. Once corals grow in, that will break it up. Plus, the way the light falls now gives some cool effects with darker shadowed spots and pockets of light during the wee hours of the moonlights. :thumbsup:

I spent a lot of time with my hand in the tank testing the lights with the PAR meter. I made some interesting discoveries. The optic lenses are definitely a good addition and help. But it looks like I'll need to remove my screen tops and slightly modify my programming for the dimmers and schedule.

With the screen tops on and ALL 3 strings (W/C, RB/UV, B/UV moonlights) on each fixture turned on to 100%... I was getting PAR readings just under the surface of about 150-190 and about 25-70ish at the sand bed. At this point, I was scratching my head a bit again.

Then I had the stroke of genius to remove the screen tops. I did a quick round of testing... If memory serves me well I was then looking at 50-120 along the sandbed/edges/corners, low 100's - 285ish in the middle 3rd of the tank, and upper 200's - 340/just barely breaking 400's (depending on where you are below the diodes) just under the surface of the water.

I didn't do a full and detailed mapping of the tank since all the lenses are not installed yet. I'll do that later this week after I receive the shipment and get them installed. But I think we found a great solution...

Get the lenses on, run ALL strings (including moonlights) up to 100% with no screen tops. This looks like it will put the PAR levels right about where they should be at 100%. So I'll need to modify my screen to run vertical between the back edge of the tank and our canopy. That way no fishy can jump out the back of the canopy, and our lighting will hit right about how it should. :thumbsup:
 
And I'm running out of time today for the other goodies. But I can blurt this out quick enough...

- So check out where the Firefish is hanging out here between the arch tower and the center tower.
20140830_144559.jpg

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- and since I took these 3 at the same time, this is just so you have a "FTS" between the last 3 pics
t1xOhzcyXHtGoKKoEatU-t6v119VNH9o8wmqEaEiTuo=w868-h488-no

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and then imagine this in the spot where the Firefish was hanging out...
- Playing some jenga, pre-cementing...
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- starting to build upwards!
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- Pretty much all done at this point on. I think I need to break off a chunk and attach a bit of a foot to take some wobble out of the tower. And depending on the rubble sizes and shapes, I might epoxy a couple mini-ledge chunks on the flatter surfaces of the tower. Just to break up the shape.
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- From the right side.
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- A bit closer.
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I needed to keep it nice and tall and narrow in order to fit it down into it's spot. But I had a goal of creating multiple mini-overhangs and little pocket caves alternating spots as I went up the column. This was an attempt to make more sleeping / living / hiding spots for fish. Especially since we're about to add the Royal Gramma that is having QT brought up to match the DT-SG right now.

Once this tower is in place in the DT, there should be lots more overhang areas to hang out and sleep. Plus, in the long run I am really thinking of using epoxy to attach a couple pieces of live branch rock between this new tower, the archway tower (to it's right), and the center tower (to it's left). That way it won't just be 3 towers, but will have a couple swim-throughs and rocky arch/ledges spanning between all 3 towers. And more spots for more coral then too :-)
 
Nice tank!! :)

Thanks for checking it out and the feed back!!!! :beer: Hopefully I'll have some good coral growth over the next year as I get things settled down and start adding more stuff.

Oh, and Fishy, I should have the lenses on shortly. They're already in the mail on Monday. And they ship from up by San Francisco. So I'm expecting them today hopefully. I'll slap those extras on there and do a really good PAR mapping of the tank once they're all good to go. But I'm pretty certain we will be spot on if we get the rest of the lenses installed and remove the screen tops. From the 1 fixture test with all the lenses, it's looking to be pretty good PAR numbers with that set up. Which would make my day! I would love to dial in the lights to good levels and not have to modify the lighting or fixture placement at all. So I'm excited, I think we're about to turn a corner on our tank.

And I can't wait to get the SG up to match the DT and transfer our new Royal Gramma into the display. I'm hoping I can finish up this last tower installment and get that in the DT before adding the new RG!

So if you're all good boys and girls and ask nicely, maybe I'll get around to sharing the sneakiness DiBeReef and I have been up to lately. :lol2::beachbum:
 
Happy Friday fun day!!!

- DisBeReef is rehabbing our Sun Polyps.
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- We've discovered it's a snap to pull them out of the tank, put them in a cup or two of tank water, add a few drops of phyto and/or reef roids to tease them open, then feed in the container throughroughly and put them back in the tank. Keeps all the mess of "overfeeding" the tank under control.

We lost a few polyps as we were figuring things out. But now, with proper attention, they are nice and plump and seemingly happy again.

- A little while ago there was the request to see our Seri that had been doing well for a few months and then suddenly went down hill. Here's a few days after the start of the process when I moved them to this shadowed over-hang spot hoping that would stop whatever made it unhappy. I failed and it's a white tooth-pick still in the same spot now.
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- Red shroom is still doing good.
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- In fact, I think it's starting to grow a new polyp (off it's base?). Not the greatest quality, but the only time you can see it is super early in the AM when no lights are on and it leans towards the light coming from outside.
2014-08-31%2B11.14.46.jpg


- Our yellow hammer is still doing well. You can just make out the 2nd mouth that has formed since we bought it in this shot.
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- Blastos back when we first got them...
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- The same Blastos about 2.5 or 3 months after being in our tank. You should be able to see the growth of new tissue between these last 2 shots.
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Well, that is that for the photo-bomb lunch update. I received the new optic lenses in the mail yesterday. So tonight or tomorrow morning will be dedicated to finishing installing those and testing the lights with the PAR meter before returning that rental in the mail.

Oh, and I might have a sneaky surprise or two still up my sleeve. But I can't add anymore pictures to this post... so those will have to wait until next time :-)
 
Very Cool Troub. I have read every post just tonight. I too am journaling my new build on another forum. Im doing a 60 cube, and just recently started stocking. Good luck and I will continue to watch and lurk. haha
 
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