A new arrival

[Tomoko Schum]

Hi alittlephishy,

I am using Fuji Finepix S700. Not as nice as Canon Rebel that gflat has, but it does a good enough job for me .

Tomoko

 

[PaPa_Johnny]

Very nice pics! Thanks taking the time to share with us. This looks like a very rewarding thing to try. Do you think you could raise these out on 2 20L's? one for parents and one for brood?

 

[Tomoko Schum]

Thank you, Jonny. It's fun to try.
I suppose you can go with two 20L's for breeding and raising a batch of fry. You might need a tank divider since you need to separate Dad from the kids (until you move your fry or father to another tank.) The divider comes in handy when you need to separate Dad from Mom for awhile after the release of fry to let Dad rest up awhile.

Tomoko

 

[stephish]

I was going to try my hand at breeding them but didn't have luck finding a a pair, the male fish killed the one we thought was female. I know it's silly but I felt bad and didn't want to keep subjecting other fish to find a female.

 

[timrandlerv10]

those are just awesome.

 

[mltmtascp]

Tomoko,
love the baby pics

Monica

 

[Tomoko Schum]

Thank you, Tim and Monica.
Babies are growing larger and a bit more adventurous. However, they get spooked very easily just like their parents.

Stephish - Unfortunately paring seems to be the most difficult part of the breeding with this fish. The same thing happened to me with a pair of them before. I have seen a group of five to seven Banggaii cardinal at John Newby's tank (the long shallow one that he used to have) a few years ago. They seemed to get along fine except for one outcast fish. Every time John got a batch, sooner or later one fish got ousted from the group. It was not killed in that big tank. I paired up the current pair by starting with five young schooling fish. As soon as one got ousted, I had to pull it out before a powerhead claimed it.

Tomoko

 

[timrandlerv10]

what do you think would be the best way to use the fry that one raises to have an impact on the IUCN's threatened list? is there a program to return some to the wild, sell them to LFS's to keep them from buying them from wholesalers, or selling them to hobbyists?

how long should it be from birth to sale to hobbyist, sale to lfs, return to wild?

is it bad for the parents to have and raise multiple clutches?

what additional measures should be taken to protect the parents' health?

thanks!

 

[NicoleC]

Captive bred fish cannot be returned to the wild. Due to the nature of the hobby, our entire industry is contaminated from top to bottom with pathogens from all over the world, most of which are relatively harmless in their native environment but lethal if spread to populations with no immunity -- think chicken pox and the Native Americans.

Captive bred fish are captive for life -- for that matter, any fish kept in captivity should never be released into the wild.

Unfortunately, there are still no limits on collecting these fish in the wild, despite it's threatened listing. But, like most fish, if a viable population is left in place and protected from encroachment, they will restore their own population relatively quickly.

If drastic intervention does become necessary, the appropriate solution would be raising fry in net pens in their native environment for release, eliminating the problems with spreading disease.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

The natural habitat of Banggai cardinalfish (Pterapogon kaudarni) is limited to Banggai Island in Indonesia. Their red list status is a direct result of collecting for the salt water aquarium hobby. I hope we can reduce the amount of wild caught fish by distributing/buying captive bred fish. Obviously there is a logistic problem for returning them to their natural habitat.

I recently saw a special campaign to plant coral frag in Okinawa sponsored by a social networking service called Goo (a service like Yahoo.) For every 30 people that register for their free service, Goo will pay a very reputable coral farm in Okinawa to plant a coral frag in the appropriate area of the ocean. This campaign is advertised in Japanese aquarium hobby magazines, Goo homepage, etc. A lot of Japanese hobbyists are participating in this campaign. We need more special campaigns like this.

As for the duration from spawning to sale, it may take 3 to 6 months. It depends on how fast you can grow them out. If you feed them often and maintain good water quality, fry will develop fast. The more frequently you feed them, the faster they will develop. I don't know if these guys will overeat to the point of death like clownfish fry. I am feeding enough and often to keep them growing rapidly, monitoring the water quality as much as my busy schedule allows right now. (My work often interferes with my hobby unfortunately.)

You need to let your male rest for a while after the release of fry before you can breed him again. Some people recommend resting the male for a month before putting the pair back together. As long as you feed them well and keep the water clean, the pair should be able to have multiple clutches a year.

Cardinalfish parents do not raise their own like fresh water cichlids do. The male will hold eggs/larvae in his mouth by instinct. However, once the fry is out of the male's mouth, he seems to forget who these little fish are and eat them. Therefore the parents will not raise multiple clutches like cichlids do. You have to raise them instead, by keeping the fry in grow out tanks. You only need a couple of tanks for grow out for a few clutches since the brood is small unlike clownfish who can produce 400 fry or more at a time.

Tomoko

 

[timrandlerv10]

eek.

if i save one clutch a year, and that effort nets me ten to fifteen young, it would take me a bajillion years to have an impact...any idea on how many per year are collected and imported to the US?

 

[NicoleC]

Dr. Marini's recent article says (citations excluded from this quote):

"Starting with surveys in 2002, data showed wild collections of BC's at approximately 200,000-400,000 fish per year. By 2004, a staggering 600,000-700,000 individuals were being collected. A recent census in 2007 indicated that over 1 million fish are now being collected annually." They have no usefulness as a food fish or any other use; this is entirely aquarium trade numbers.

He goes on to remind us that that is collected fish -- actual numbers which survive to end up in fish stores are much lower... about half. They are also under pressure from habitat destruction and reef damage and industrial/agricultural runoff.

Some sites in their native 32 island archipelago are already fished out; at current collection rates BC's are expected to become extinct in a decade. When you consider that the fish was only discovered in 1995, this is truly a calamitous impact on the species and it's environment.

Although the fish is IUCN red-listed, this has no legal bearing on what is, currently, still massively heavily collection and importation. Only a CITES II or III listing will help the fish by regulating collection to sustainable levels. Nor is there a single conservation ro aquaculture program on the ground working for these fish or even one planned. Nor is MAC considering a program for these fish.

Until and if CITES protection can be secured, I'm afraid the reality of the future of these fishies may be that captive breeding will keep them from becoming extinct... even after they die out in the wild.

Hopefully it won't get that bad. There may still be time for larger aquaculture facilities like ORA to ramp up production enough to make BC's follow in the footsteps of A. ocellaris -- a fish which is the poster child for captive breeding success.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

If a lot of hobbyists breed Banggai cardinal around the world or insist on buying captive bred BC, there will be less pressure to collect wild ones. Although just one or two person can make only a small contribution, a large number of aquarists can make a big impact collectively.

Tomoko

 

[timrandlerv10]

HOLY COW...i had to read that twice, because the numbers were so large they didnt make any sense...


that's stunning...i dont know what else to say...

well, i'm 'all in' now for trying to establish a breeding pair of BC's.

If i can, i'm going to breed both the BC's and my GSM's. i remember readind somewhere on RC about a guy that was breeding fish, and he would stop after he placed into good homes the same number of fish he estimated he took out of the population across his entire life--i bet between my cichlids, gold fish and now saltwater, i've had 50 or 60 fish in my life.

i aim to repay that, and since i'm a financial planner, interest too!


one million BC's...wow...


Tomoko, when can i start breeding?

 

[Tomoko Schum]

Tim,

I am afraid that it's going to be at least 6 months away for the current batch of fry to start spawning. If you want to start breeding Banggai Cardinal right away, you must find a mated pair or a school of juvenile BC's.

If you are serious about breeding your GSM's, I suggest that you put the pair in their own breeding tank without your BTA and start feeding them a lot with quality food. Your anemone unfortunately will not appreciate the nitrate level resulting from such heavy feeding. However, this is a sure fire way to get them to spawn.

In your 75, you might be able to get the pair to spawn, but you must collect newly hatched larvae before they disappear into the overflow. If you are lucky, your pair may lay eggs on a tile or a small rock that you can remove from the 75 to raise them yourself.

Tomoko

 

[NicoleC]

Slow down, Tim. I love your enthusiasm but I am not sure you know what you are getting into just yet. You need to be sure that you are going to be a keeper in this hobby (so many people burn out) and develop strong consistent water quality skills. Start researching now the kind of effort and time to breed saltwater fish and also the methods. And start working on your culturing skills. Then when you have all the pieces, you can put them together.

 

[timrandlerv10]

luckily, my ADD and obsessive/compulsive traits rarely hit at the same time...although my wife did find half the toilet clean enough to eat from and a pile of rags and cleaners while i was asleep at the computer once...go figure

i will definitely stay with this obsession (hobby is the PC term for obsession now? ), but i know i wont always stay with breeding. i really do want to pay back what i owe.

they love those anemones so much...they are without the nems right now in the 75--for some reason, i just wasnt comfortable putting the nems in right away...i think even a few month delay will pay off in the long run (one dying now would crush me!).

i am redoing my rockwork next week, and i will put a tile or a few small rocks near the areas they like while we're waiting for the nems. can you define 'quality food'?

my rots and nanno grow like crazy, but i know they're on the easier end of the spectrum. i will be starting brine soon--just until i know i can get them to hatch at the time i want--and i also want to try to grow mysis. i havent been able to find live eggs or live msysis at anything approaching reasonable prices...i'm hoping i dont have to buy 2000 for $500! lots of frozen and freeze dried, but no live eggs so far. what gives there?

thanks to you both for the encouragement, support and reminding when to pull on the reins!

 

[NicoleC]

Anemones also make excellent candidates for aquaculture... and much easier! (That is, after you get over the creepiness of slicing them up with razor blades.)

 

[timrandlerv10]

i was a phlebotomist at a women's and children's hospital to pay for college...i have no problem with anything sharp as long as i'm not on the business end

once they're settled in, we've already picked the first one to go under the knife...they are really frequent splitters--2 splits in a year--so we may not need to cut often. they also heal quickly--less than a week from split to eating. now that i have more water, lower k lights, MORE light, and i'm ready to start cutting, we're going to give it a go. as a matter of fact, the first four are already claimed!

i also want to start with and get some practice by cutting some mushrooms--they seem to be pretty forgiving.

i ordered my brine eggs today. still searching for mysis...i may have to into the mysis culturing business...

 

[Tomoko Schum]

Culturing mysis is a lot more involved than I want to take on. The key to successful mysis culture is to prevent cannibalism by separating the adults from the young. You must diligently sieve out the adult mysis from the culture. You can read about it here.

It's a lot easier to grow brine shrimp to adult than to culture mysis.

Tomoko