timrandlerv10
New member
but arent mysis way more nutrtional? i know bbs have great characteristics, but for larger, more nutritious live food...
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- Thread starter Tomoko Schum
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Tomoko Schum
New member
Here's an except from an article written by a researcher:
There is a myth floating around that adult artemia are not as good for your fish as newly hatched. There is a tiny bit of truth to this, but it depends on what you are feeding. So whats in it for your fish: Newly hatched artemia are high in fats, about 23% of dry weight. By mid juvenile stage, the fat levels have decreased to about 16 %, and by the time they are pre-adults the fat levels have decreased to about 7%. But, at the same time, the protein content has risen to replace the fat, from about 45% in a newly hatched artemia to about 63% in an adult. Based on this, you should determine what is best for your tank, young fish larvae require a high fat intake for growth and health, while older juveniles and adults need protein for health and reproduction. Also, nauplii are known to be deficient in several essential amino acids, while the adult artemia are rich in all essential amino acids. Adult artemia therefore supply more biomass than nauplii and are more nutritionally complete.
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There are other good article about adult brine shrimp. I am at work right now and I cannot get to the article about the nutritional content of adult brine shrimp vs. bbs. It might have had a comparison chart on mysis as well. My break time is almost over so I have to dig it up later. I don't recall that there was a lot of difference between the two, though.
As long as you have a good clean up crew, I find frozen food from reputable suppliers are good enough for breeding fish. I would not really see extra merit in growing your own live food except it can be a lot of fun to do so for some of us.
Tomoko
Tomoko
There is a myth floating around that adult artemia are not as good for your fish as newly hatched. There is a tiny bit of truth to this, but it depends on what you are feeding. So whats in it for your fish: Newly hatched artemia are high in fats, about 23% of dry weight. By mid juvenile stage, the fat levels have decreased to about 16 %, and by the time they are pre-adults the fat levels have decreased to about 7%. But, at the same time, the protein content has risen to replace the fat, from about 45% in a newly hatched artemia to about 63% in an adult. Based on this, you should determine what is best for your tank, young fish larvae require a high fat intake for growth and health, while older juveniles and adults need protein for health and reproduction. Also, nauplii are known to be deficient in several essential amino acids, while the adult artemia are rich in all essential amino acids. Adult artemia therefore supply more biomass than nauplii and are more nutritionally complete.
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There are other good article about adult brine shrimp. I am at work right now and I cannot get to the article about the nutritional content of adult brine shrimp vs. bbs. It might have had a comparison chart on mysis as well. My break time is almost over so I have to dig it up later. I don't recall that there was a lot of difference between the two, though.
As long as you have a good clean up crew, I find frozen food from reputable suppliers are good enough for breeding fish. I would not really see extra merit in growing your own live food except it can be a lot of fun to do so for some of us.
Tomoko
Tomoko
timrandlerv10
New member
i would love to see the brine/mysis comparison. it certainly seems like adult artemia would be a beneficial food or food supplement. and they are definitely easier to raise than mysis.
is there any way to supplment those missing amino acids in bbs? or if not, what is another source for them? or do those that dine on bbs not require those in great volume yet?
i like the idea of feeding live vs frozen foods for a few reasons--certainly one of which is the enjoyment of culturing and feeding.
try as you may, the more questions you answer, the more questions i have! i'm sure we'll reach max capacity one day...
is there any way to supplment those missing amino acids in bbs? or if not, what is another source for them? or do those that dine on bbs not require those in great volume yet?
i like the idea of feeding live vs frozen foods for a few reasons--certainly one of which is the enjoyment of culturing and feeding.
try as you may, the more questions you answer, the more questions i have! i'm sure we'll reach max capacity one day...
Tomoko Schum
New member
According to Manual on Production and Use of Live Food for Aquaculture, "the levels of essential amino acids in Artemia are generally not a major problem in view of its nutritional value."
The argument or the justification for the use of live food is often based on the notion that live food will live in your tank for a long enough time till fish eat them. This may be true, but my fish hardly miss any frozen food I drop in the tank. If they do, my nassaurius snails finish them off pretty quickly. I have seen both live bbs and adult artemia swimming around for awhile in my observation tank, but they never live there very long since the availability of their food is low. When I put live bbs in my fry tank, I have to be careful not to put too much since excess uneaten bbs will eventually die and foul the water. They persists in SW tank longer than frozen bbs, but I usually see uneaten ones disappear within a few hours - I know my fry were full and not interested in eating more. Just like many breeders, I use live rotifers/bbs mainly because newborns will not eat anything but live food, however, I will wean them to frozen food as soon as I can.
With that said, I find live adult artemia useful for spawning. I can get my breeding pairs to spawn with frozen food, but when I start feeding my display tank with live adult artemia, a lot of my fish seem to start spawning.
Tomoko
The argument or the justification for the use of live food is often based on the notion that live food will live in your tank for a long enough time till fish eat them. This may be true, but my fish hardly miss any frozen food I drop in the tank. If they do, my nassaurius snails finish them off pretty quickly. I have seen both live bbs and adult artemia swimming around for awhile in my observation tank, but they never live there very long since the availability of their food is low. When I put live bbs in my fry tank, I have to be careful not to put too much since excess uneaten bbs will eventually die and foul the water. They persists in SW tank longer than frozen bbs, but I usually see uneaten ones disappear within a few hours - I know my fry were full and not interested in eating more. Just like many breeders, I use live rotifers/bbs mainly because newborns will not eat anything but live food, however, I will wean them to frozen food as soon as I can.
With that said, I find live adult artemia useful for spawning. I can get my breeding pairs to spawn with frozen food, but when I start feeding my display tank with live adult artemia, a lot of my fish seem to start spawning.
Tomoko
timrandlerv10
New member
aha!
i knew there was a reason for my absurd line of questioning!
so if i feed my rots nanno, and my artemia rots, and then feed my almost spawning gsms artemia, it may improve my chances of them spawning?
i knew there was a reason for my absurd line of questioning!
so if i feed my rots nanno, and my artemia rots, and then feed my almost spawning gsms artemia, it may improve my chances of them spawning?
Tomoko Schum
New member
That sounds like too much trouble to produce live food especially since live adult artemia is very cheap and easy to obtain locally.
I never heard anyone feeding rotifers to artemia. I know that enriched bbs are fed to mysis to increase the nutritional value of mysis. Have you heard anyone using rotifers to feed artemia?
As for artemia stimulating spawning, it's based only on my limited experience. YMMV.
I see that you really want to breed your GSM's. You have brought up the subject for a number of times now.
If your are serious about breeding them, I still think you should just put your GSM's into their own breeding set up and feed them a lot of good frozen food. Why not use your 44G for breeding your GSM's after you move your BTA to your 75G?
Artemia should be used as supplement and not the main food. I suggest that you save your nannochloropsis and rotifers for your GSM's fry. Many clownfish breeders use nannochloropsis for fry tank to keep the rotifers fed/enriched and to help reduce the ammonia/nitrate level in a small fry tank. I highly recommend that you get hold of " Clownfishes" book by Dr. Joyce Wilkerson. The book spells out exactly what to do to condition your clownfish to spawn, how to collect eggs/larvae, and to grow them out. It's an easy book to read with step by step instructions.
Tomoko
I never heard anyone feeding rotifers to artemia. I know that enriched bbs are fed to mysis to increase the nutritional value of mysis. Have you heard anyone using rotifers to feed artemia?
As for artemia stimulating spawning, it's based only on my limited experience. YMMV.
I see that you really want to breed your GSM's. You have brought up the subject for a number of times now.
If your are serious about breeding them, I still think you should just put your GSM's into their own breeding set up and feed them a lot of good frozen food. Why not use your 44G for breeding your GSM's after you move your BTA to your 75G?
Artemia should be used as supplement and not the main food. I suggest that you save your nannochloropsis and rotifers for your GSM's fry. Many clownfish breeders use nannochloropsis for fry tank to keep the rotifers fed/enriched and to help reduce the ammonia/nitrate level in a small fry tank. I highly recommend that you get hold of " Clownfishes" book by Dr. Joyce Wilkerson. The book spells out exactly what to do to condition your clownfish to spawn, how to collect eggs/larvae, and to grow them out. It's an easy book to read with step by step instructions.
Tomoko
timrandlerv10
New member
i hope to get Clownfish for my birthday (next month).
where can you get adult artemia live? cost?
thanks,
tim
where can you get adult artemia live? cost?
thanks,
tim
Tomoko Schum
New member
You can get live adult brine shrimp at The Aquarium Shop. 1 scoop (tbsp?) is like a dollar. You should enrich them by feeding your nannochloropsis to them for a day or two before giving them to your fish. Another way to put your nanno to a good use 
Tomoko
Tomoko
Tomoko Schum
New member
I am happy to report that all the little guys are doing well and getting big and fat on frozen Cylopeeze I think they have tripled their size.
Tomoko
I think they have tripled their size.Tomoko
timrandlerv10
New member
so...they're bigger, and you're enjoying your new camera, and new pics are...?
i'm going to go get some brine from TAS tonight as a treat for my kids!
tim
i'm going to go get some brine from TAS tonight as a treat for my kids!
tim
Tomoko Schum
New member
I will try to get more pictures later.
I have to take hundreds of pictures of them to get a few good ones now that they are swimming faster. They run away from me when I start flashing at them. They are definitely bigger but it's hard to show that in a picture since their tank lacks things to measure their growth with except for the sea urchin which they abandoned lately...
Tomoko
I have to take hundreds of pictures of them to get a few good ones now that they are swimming faster. They run away from me when I start flashing at them. They are definitely bigger but it's hard to show that in a picture since their tank lacks things to measure their growth with except for the sea urchin which they abandoned lately...
Tomoko
Tomoko Schum
New member
I hope you can tell how much they grew from these pictures:
I still have all 25 of them but it's hard to capture them all in one picture.
I managed to send some fry into the sea urchin for a size reference:
Coming out of the sea urchin:
Out and about:
In the cloud of bbs and cyclopeeze:
Tomoko
I still have all 25 of them but it's hard to capture them all in one picture.
I managed to send some fry into the sea urchin for a size reference:
Coming out of the sea urchin:
Out and about:
In the cloud of bbs and cyclopeeze:
Tomoko
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timrandlerv10
New member
more wow
PaPa_Johnny
Premium Member
What timrand said 
Looking back at the first shots the babies are almost twice as big now aren't they? Great job so far!
Looking back at the first shots the babies are almost twice as big now aren't they? Great job so far!
Tomoko Schum
New member
Thanks, guys.
It seems to me that they have more than doubled their size in two weeks. They were really tiny when they came out of their father's mouth. Imagine having 25 kids in your mouth :eek2:
Tomoko
It seems to me that they have more than doubled their size in two weeks. They were really tiny when they came out of their father's mouth. Imagine having 25 kids in your mouth :eek2:
Tomoko
Tomoko Schum
New member
Hi y'all,
I just happened to find this video of Bangaii cardinal hatching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7euDk-Qqzg
I suppose it's good to know that eggs can be hatched this way if my male accidentally spit out the eggs (I understand that some people actually strip the male of his eggs.)
Cichlid keepers do this a lot using a air driven hatcher like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTyj-pGVUlY
Tomoko
I just happened to find this video of Bangaii cardinal hatching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7euDk-Qqzg
I suppose it's good to know that eggs can be hatched this way if my male accidentally spit out the eggs (I understand that some people actually strip the male of his eggs.)
Cichlid keepers do this a lot using a air driven hatcher like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTyj-pGVUlY
Tomoko
Tomoko Schum
New member
When I was feeding my baby cardinals tonight, a small adult brine shrimp got into their tank accidentally. I was simply watching the babies' reaction to see if they even recognized it. Even though it's a small adult brine shrimp, it's almost a half as long as the babies. Lo and behold, one of the babies ate the brine shrimp :eek2: The tail of the brine shrimp was wiggling out of the baby' s mouth, but soon the baby sucked it up like a spaghetti. So I put some more young adult brine shrimp and watched. The babies ate them as soon as brine shrimp got close enough for them to take a bite. I just had to tell you all since I find it so amazing.
Tomoko
Tomoko
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PaPa_Johnny
Premium Member
Wow, that's great news for you, bigger food, faster growing right?
Tomoko Schum
New member
I suppose so Now I have to grow out some brine shrimp, too.
By the way, I seem to find you all the places that I visit on RC - like Melev's, quicksilver's, and some others' threads. Your avatar with cute little kids is quite recognizable.
Tomoko
Now I have to grow out some brine shrimp, too.By the way, I seem to find you all the places that I visit on RC - like Melev's, quicksilver's, and some others' threads. Your avatar with cute little kids is quite recognizable.
Tomoko
