A Technique and Betrayal.

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kerusso316

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A Technique and Betrayal.
The story starts about 3 years ago when trying to pair adult Onyx Perculas.They were male and female but hated each other.I tried to do the egg crate thing for several weeks,Only to find that when I removed the barrier...They still hated each other.Frustrated,I started to experiment.After many try's I discovered a way to pair even the most angry fish.Hold that thought and move forward to a few weeks ago.....
A breeder begin to call to talk about fish breeding.He will be named "DingBatt" here, for various reasons.DingBatt asked many
questions.I gave many general answers.DingBatt wanted to trade fish.He offered a pair of Picasso's for a pair of my confirmed Sea-Quest Onyx offspring.His WC Picasso parents are incredible.I wanted a pair... so I played along.The trade got pushed back,then again.The reason DingBatt said the babies had not colored up as of yet.So I waited.DingBatt called me several time a day with several questions.He begin to irritate me a bit.But we{breeders}are a strange bunch...so I put up with it.Then the big announcement came.ORA releases there Platinum's.I took one look and did not like the fish.Yet the potential for breading using the fish Immediately struck me.Then I
saw the price tag.No thank you.Not me.No Way.I will leave it to someone else to wade in those waters.Within days DingBatt calls with a question.He said He had a Platinum male and was trying to mate it with an Onyx female.I thought "that's what I wanted to do".DingBatt said the female would not accept the male.She was trying to kill it.So I told DingBatt to use the egg crate method,separating the fish for a week so they could get use to one another.
After a week or so DingBatt called and said the technique had not worked.The Onyx try's to kill the Platinum.I thought about giving him THE TECHNIQUE for a few days.It was a hard decision.I realized that DingBatt has been removed from many forums So I did not trust him very much.I thought this may be A good time to ether #1 get the fish promised to me #2 Find out if the Platinum X Onyx would throw a high % Picasso or #3 find out what everyone already knew "DingBatt can not be trusted".So I decided to tell him the TECHNIQUE.I told DingBatt that I had never read or heard of the TECHNIQUE so as far as I know it is mine too keep or share with the world.I asked him for a promise that He would not tell anyone.He gave me his word.and a promise.I told him to grab about 5 three month old fish.Perc or O's it did not matter.Place the Male female together with the 5 smaller fish.The female will begin to kill the smaller fish,I also told him the male will join in the killing.When the smaller fish are all gone the Male/Female should be bonded for life.DingBatt called back in a few hours to let me know the TECHNIQUE worked.I was happy to have helped him.
A few days later the phone rang.It was a friend saying there was something new and I should go read a post on {small fish tank site}.I went there, It was DingBatt saying he had discovered a way to bond fish "if the females aggression is focused somewhere else." I considered this a breach of his word.That is an obvious tip off to any breeder.So I moved forward to see if DingBatt would betray me more.I had a friend send him a Pm asking him to elaborate
on the "focusing aggression".DingBatt pm back the entire TECHNIQUE.I did not tell DingBatt he was busted.He called a few days later to let me know He was writing a book on breeding techniques.He asked if He could use the TECHNIQUE in the book.Realizing the TECHNIQUE was out of the bag already,I agreed to let him use it,as long as he gave me credit.He
agreed.Later that night I began planing this post.DingBatt is not trustworthy.Therefore how can I trust him to give me credit.So here it is in a nutshell.I am not a prideful man but I do not like to be ripped off.DingBatt, you should be ashamed of yourself.No wonder you got booted from here,and several other forums.
There are many trustworthy people here.You guys are wonderful.Thank you for all your friendship,help....and rotifers.
The TECHNIQUE is also a great life lesson.Some of you will get the life lesson now. Some will figure it out wile trying to sleep tonight.Others will never understand that Mutual Enemies Turn Foes into Allies.
 
Most of us won't see it that way but rather you are unwilling to share a technique that may help other breeders be successful. What a shame.
 
I just did,And have shared many breakthroughs for years.Putting my secretes in a book for prophet is stealing.Do you have a few secrets up your sleeve.I am sure you do.You can choose to tell them to us now or not that is your prerogative.We are all waiting.
 
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I share every secret I can accept ones I am not allowed to under contract but those have nothing to do with MO fish breeding. IMO the only way were going to see more break throughs is the true free exchange of ideas. We'd be further along right now if this were he case all around.

The second you choose to share it IMO it became public knowledge. I see no harm in putting it in print so more can see it then just internet breeders :) He did say he'd give you credit, right? What more could you ask for? FWIW I doubt he'll make much from the books, most MO authors don't :)
 
Hey Gresh.Whats in your Roto Grow Pluse.I here you will not even tell your brother whats in it?:)This info will of course help me be a better internet breeder.The prouduct rocks by the way.I will not use anything else.Alot get lost on the net.....I just busting you up a bit,nothing personal....
 
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RotiGrow Plus has been launched so I can tell you about it :) I just don't know when it'll be available to the masses, nor any details with out researching it myself. I'm on the Reef Nutrition side of the business.

FWIW I do understand where you're coming from and I do sympathize with your situation. I would truly like to to a second and acknowledge the fact you took the high ground and didn't post his name :) That alone sets you aside from the vast majority of internet forum users!!!!

I'm both disappointed and pleased with the state of MO breeding. I think it's come a long way, but we'd be much further on if there was more free exchange of ideas. RC, MOFIB, etc are all great places for this.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15355451#post15355451 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rcypert
What is the technique?


[I told him to grab about 5 three month old fish.Perc or O's it did not matter.Place the Male female together with the 5 smaller fish.The female will begin to kill the smaller fish,I also told him the male will join in the killing.When the smaller fish are all gone the Male/Female should be bonded for life
 
Hmm the Dingbat sounds like quite a piece of work. I do agree with Gresham having secret techniques does not help the hobby. You did divulge it eventually but I don't believe its responsible for us to keep any technique secret. I find in this hobby that people (breeders / stores / distributors) tend to be very elusive and secretive at times and it disturbs me. Thanks for sharing "the technique" its a very clever idea. :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15359428#post15359428 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rkelman
Hmm the Dingbat sounds like quite a piece of work. I do agree with Gresham having secret techniques does not help the hobby. You did divulge it eventually but I don't believe its responsible for us to keep any technique secret. I find in this hobby that people (breeders / stores / distributors) tend to be very elusive and secretive at times and it disturbs me. Thanks for sharing "the technique" its a very clever idea. :)
First of all, Gresh has more secrets than any breader I know.He has that contract thingy.He is a great guy working for a great company.REED Mariculture{ring the bell}They need to feed there families.Nothing wrong with that.My breakthroughs are mine to do with as I please.I share my secrets with a good people.There are many here that know that.Please dont stand up.If I can help, I do.I lurk and read mostley so I can learn more.There are many out there also that already "know it all".If they know it all.... I dont really need to help them.That is why I dont Puke everything I learn.If people are humble and nice and ask.Good things will happen.
 
rkelman knows who I am, and who RMI is :)

I actually personally don't have any breeding secrets, none, zilch, nada, zip. I know the basics of how our operation works but with out the details it would be utterly useless to anyone other then a handful of people on the planet. That info I can not give out. We have shared all our rotifer growing secrets for years and have worked with countless hobbyists, professional aquarists, researchers and hatcheries to help them better understand rotifer culture. We have worked with people trying to breed copepods as well.

I actually take offense to the notion I don't share information. I do so daily both on the clock and off. I live for this hobby and only want to see the best for it. IMO breeding is something that will help save this hobby in the long run and the more that share help get us there quicker. You can mark my words that wild caught MO won't last for ever. There will be a day when it's banned outright. That is not to say there haven't been a dozen or more bills aimed at shutting down the hobby ;) Every time one of those bills came up, rest assured I gave my input and tried my best to bring them to light.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15369803#post15369803 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
rkelman knows who I am, and who RMI is :)

Did you tell rkelman about your new product? I pm him about it 2 weeks ago.He had just ordered and did not know anything about it.Who says I don't share?

I actually take offense to the notion I don't share information. I do so daily both on the clock and off.


Same old stuff anyone can read anywhere on the net.I was not trying to offend you or any one else.My point is there are secrets.There is nothing wrong with it.You were saying shame on me.I called your hand.You still did not answer my request.Where is the formula for Roto Grow Plus.Well where is it?.Is it a Secret? Stop bashing me because I have a few techniques that I wont share with the world. I share them with nice people.If your are not getting them......well then.Gresh,It took me this long to figure you out.My mom always said "dont wrangle with a pig.All you get is dirty....and the pig likes it".Where is that formula?.............Gona to bash me and do the very thing.Your a hip.....I cant say it Ill get ban.I am done wasting my time with you.Where is that formula?
 
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Did I tell him about our new product? What's that have to do with anything? It's no secret at all. The website should roll out any day. It's not marketed towards hobbyists, it's marketed towards commercial aquaculture and research. We've had ads in those trade mags for months now, like hatchery International.

How can I tell him a formula I don't know ? I am not privy to the formula so I can't divulge it. Like I said, I do not know the details of most of our operation and for good reason...it's not my job. Need to know basis....
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15311382#post15311382 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by GreshamH
Most of us won't see it that way but rather you are unwilling to share a technique that may help other breeders be successful. What a shame.
You judged me and I complemented you.I judged you the same way and you got bent.M'M'Moma say If ya cant take the heat get out the kitchen.Im guessing your not much of a chess player......So your boss has secrets.....Good for him.I like both of those guys(Reed's).Great people and a great company.You should think about moving-on though.Because they keep SECRETS.
 
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