About to start my first quarentine...need some guidance please.

[JMLewis]

Ok so ive read through all of the stickies and have done quite a bit of research.

While my tank is currently cycling after a complete tear down and rebuild i would like to do a cupramine treatment on the remaining fish i have.

I have a 2.5" Powder brown tang, 1 Bartlets Anthia, 1 2.5" Foxface, and 1 Diamond watchman goby. Theyve all been in a 30g holding tank with a couple power heads, 150w heater, and small HOB filter without the carbon or floss mostly using it for the biological. Tank has some large peices of PVC for hiding places and thats it. The tank is also hooked up to an ATO so i dont have to worry about salinity issues.

Theyve been in there for a couple weeks now and showing signs of ich. I had some live rock in there to help the biological side of things but that will obviously be removed before the cupramine treatment starts.

Since theyve been in there a couple weeks some cyano and bryopis has formed over most of the pvc, power heads, and walls of the tank.

The current medications i have right now are cupramine and prazipro. I know not to do these together.

1. Is this algae going to cause me a problem when i do start the treatment? As in will it decay from the copper and cause me amonia/nitrite issues?

2. Im planning on raising the copper to .5 ppm over the next week and then keeping them at .5ppm saturation for 3 weeks. Does that sound like enough time?

3. When im done with the cupramine and want to start the prazipro can i remove the copper with a reactor full of carbon or should it be done via water changes?

4. Would it be a good idea to keep the temp in the QT around ~74 to slow down the metabolism of the fish for feeding purposes?

Thanks for the help in advance, any advise is appreciated, I just dont want to kill any of them or have them suffer in any way.

 

[JMLewis]

Any

 

[MrTuskfish]

The big question: what are you going to do for ammonia control when you remove the LR?

Here's a long-winded response I posted on a similar thread. I am not the Captain of the Keyboard;....it should have my opinions on most of your questions.



"Another good alternative may be Chloroquine: I'm new to this stuff, but like the recommendations. I have a fish being treated with it now.

I've used Cupramine for years and have a lot of confidence in it. I treat all fish for 4 weeks at about .35ppm. I stay between .30 and .40. I also take about 5 days to get to the treatment level. These numbers differ from the bottle's instructions, but SeaChem says those numbers are fine. I've heard they may change their labeling, but haven't seen it. Before adding any CU to the QT/HT; i make sure all fish are eating. if they stop, its the first sigh of Cu intolerance and I lower Cu, let them rest a few days, then increase Cu and re-start the clock. I use the same level with large angels and just don't consider them especially copper-sensitive. IMO & IME, with some rare exceptions; copper is usually an individual fish thing, rather than am entire group of fish being Cu sensitive. Copper is a strong med and I sure don't want to suggest that all fish will always survive the treatment. All fish won't survive ich either and none will in many cases. Fish with ich are weakened as well. But I don't think the loss rate is any higher with Cu than other methods. IMO, the DT should be fishless for 10-12 weeks. After Cu, treating with Prazi-Pro is a good idea. Some folks use Cu & PP together; but the PP is less effective when used with Cu; according to the mfg of PP. Be sure to test Cu in the evening, almost all ich theronts are released at night. Many copper test kits don't work with Cupramine; SeaChem & Salifert do.

SeaChem has a great site (http://www.seachem.com/Products/prod...Cupramine.html). The FAQ are required reading. They have great phone tech support too, don't hesitate to use them. A couple of last points; no LR or substrate in the QT/HT; it makes proper dosing impossible. Having a way to control ammonia is the downfall for lots of folks. You can't use the ammonia-neutralizing products with Cupramine (Prime, Ammo-Lock), etc..Have a lot of SW ready for WCs. A HOB filter with well-seeded media is the best way to handle ammonia, but not everyone is prepared."

I noticed your concern about your fish suffering or dying. Copper is very toxic and may not be real easy on some fish. However, ich is deadly. I imagine ''death by ich" would be a terrible way to go. It sounds like your fish have been suffering with ich for a while. Even if you see just one whitespot, the gills could have a lot of the parasites. That is their favorite feeding place. I think you can get through 4 weeks of copper; but there are no guarantees with any ich treatment. Remember, they are already compromised because of the ich.

 

[JMLewis]

Well I was planning on keeping freshly mixed water mixing in a brute trash can and change as needed.

I have a seachem amonnia alert tag in there. Do you think that will be sufficient?

 

[attaboy]

The big question: what are you going to do for ammonia control when you remove the LR?

Here's a long-winded response I posted on a similar thread. I am not the Captain of the Keyboard;....it should have my opinions on most of your questions.



"Another good alternative may be Chloroquine: I'm new to this stuff, but like the recommendations. I have a fish being treated with it now.

I've used Cupramine for years and have a lot of confidence in it. I treat all fish for 4 weeks at about .35ppm. I stay between .30 and .40. I also take about 5 days to get to the treatment level. These numbers differ from the bottle's instructions, but SeaChem says those numbers are fine. I've heard they may change their labeling, but haven't seen it. Before adding any CU to the QT/HT; i make sure all fish are eating. if they stop, its the first sigh of Cu intolerance and I lower Cu, let them rest a few days, then increase Cu and re-start the clock. I use the same level with large angels and just don't consider them especially copper-sensitive. IMO & IME, with some rare exceptions; copper is usually an individual fish thing, rather than am entire group of fish being Cu sensitive. Copper is a strong med and I sure don't want to suggest that all fish will always survive the treatment. All fish won't survive ich either and none will in many cases. Fish with ich are weakened as well. But I don't think the loss rate is any higher with Cu than other methods. IMO, the DT should be fishless for 10-12 weeks. After Cu, treating with Prazi-Pro is a good idea. Some folks use Cu & PP together; but the PP is less effective when used with Cu; according to the mfg of PP. Be sure to test Cu in the evening, almost all ich theronts are released at night. Many copper test kits don't work with Cupramine; SeaChem & Salifert do.

SeaChem has a great site (http://www.seachem.com/Products/prod...Cupramine.html). The FAQ are required reading. They have great phone tech support too, don't hesitate to use them. A couple of last points; no LR or substrate in the QT/HT; it makes proper dosing impossible. Having a way to control ammonia is the downfall for lots of folks. You can't use the ammonia-neutralizing products with Cupramine (Prime, Ammo-Lock), etc..Have a lot of SW ready for WCs. A HOB filter with well-seeded media is the best way to handle ammonia, but not everyone is prepared."

I noticed your concern about your fish suffering or dying. Copper is very toxic and may not be real easy on some fish. However, ich is deadly. I imagine ''death by ich" would be a terrible way to go. It sounds like your fish have been suffering with ich for a while. Even if you see just one whitespot, the gills could have a lot of the parasites. That is their favorite feeding place. I think you can get through 4 weeks of copper; but there are no guarantees with any ich treatment. Remember, they are already compromised because of the ich.

Regarding Ammonia: If the tank is seeded with filter material from an estabilished tank this should not be an issue, right? Alternatively you could use a bacteria (e.g. Brightwell Microbacter) to keep the spike to a minimum. It works work.

Have you had good luck with the SeaChem test kit? I find the results can vary.

How do you QT wrasses that like to bury in the sand without having a substrate? Agree barebottom tank is ideal, I've found that some fish really stress out without a ton of good hiding places (not just a few pieces of PVC)

 

[JMLewis]

Regarding Ammonia: If the tank is seeded with filter material from an estabilished tank this should not be an issue, right? Alternatively you could use a bacteria (e.g. Brightwell Microbacter) to keep the spike to a minimum. It works work.

Have you had good luck with the SeaChem test kit? I find the results can vary.

How do you QT wrasses that like to bury in the sand without having a substrate? Agree barebottom tank is ideal, I've found that some fish really stress out without a ton of good hiding places (not just a few pieces of PVC)

Hijack someone elses thread or make your own please im trying to get my questions answered in this one. Thanks

 

[MrTuskfish]

Well I was planning on keeping freshly mixed water mixing in a brute trash can and change as needed.

I have a seachem amonnia alert tag in there. Do you think that will be sufficient?

The ammonia alert badges do work well. I'd plan a lot of WCs. I have never been a fan of bacteria-in-a bottle products; but a couple seem to be working well. I'd try Bio-Spira wit a HOB filter, it just might work well enough to keep ammonia down. Lots of folks hold back food during treatment to help the bio-load. IMO, this is a big mistake. Fish need to be fed well during the "ordeal".

 

[attaboy]

Hijack someone elses thread or make your own please im trying to get my questions answered in this one. Thanks

I was asking the questions in the interest of helping you with your upcoming quarantine of fish as I have used alternative approaches.

Please assume good intent.

 

[JMLewis]

The ammonia alert badges do work well. I'd plan a lot of WCs. I have never been a fan of bacteria-in-a bottle products; but a couple seem to be working well. I'd try Bio-Spira wit a HOB filter, it just might work well enough to keep ammonia down. Lots of folks hold back food during treatment to help the bio-load. IMO, this is a big mistake. Fish need to be fed well during the "ordeal".

Ok yea I'm planning on feeding well and doing wc with the same concentration of copper water.

Do you think the existing cyano is going to cause any kind of issue?

 

[JMLewis]

I was asking the questions in the interest of helping you with your upcoming quarantine of fish as I have used alternative approaches.

Please assume good intent.

No worries. Sorry if I sounded rude I'm starting my copper treatment in the next day or two and I'm a bit nervous so I just didn't want anything to side track the questions I was asking. :beer:

 

[attaboy]

A couple of thoughts from my experience:

- Up the copper level very slowly, a week is good as you planned. I have lost fish going per instructions

- Watch the test kits closely. I have found some of the copper tests are inaccurate (could be user error)

Very intersted in how this goes for you, would you mind posting about your journey so we can learn from your experience?

 

[wooden_reefer]

Regarding Ammonia: If the tank is seeded with filter material from an estabilished tank this should not be an issue, right? Alternatively you could use a bacteria (e.g. Brightwell Microbacter) to keep the spike to a minimum. It works work.

The "seed" should be enough to handle the ammonia in QT at once, not wait for another cycle with your fish in the ammonia laden water.

Feed the seed with ammonia before you buy any fish to qt. One shot of 2 ppm will generally be enough for moderate bioload in QT. I generally do a little more, say twice 10 days apart.

 

[metasinapsis]

I hace add some cerámic rocks that i had for my extint Malawi chichilds my qt fish enjoy better than pvc and also the material wont absorb cu or ****.

 

[metasinapsis]

I dont like the armonía alert stamp i prefer to leave the api test rigth next to the qt

 

[MrTuskfish]

I dont like the armonía alert stamp i prefer to leave the api test rigth next to the qt

You can put the API test kit back; they don't work with Cupramine copper.

 

[SDguy]

These are just my opinions/how I do things... it has worked very well for me.

1. Is this algae going to cause me a problem when i do start the treatment? As in will it decay from the copper and cause me amonia/nitrite issues? Perhaps, so don't risk it. Clean it away prior to starting the cupramine.

2. Im planning on raising the copper to .5 ppm over the next week and then keeping them at .5ppm saturation for 3 weeks. Does that sound like enough time? I don't go up to 0.5. I use the drops method for small tanks. One drop per gallon on day one. Another drop per gallon on day 2 or 3. Another drop per gallon on day 4 or 5. Then wait and test. I use the salifert test, and try to keep the color around the 0.25 color, buit below the 0.5 color (not the easiest test kit to use for minute accuracy.

3. When im done with the cupramine and want to start the prazipro can i remove the copper with a reactor full of carbon or should it be done via water changes? Carbon is fine for this, but you should also be doing water changes on the QT. I do at least once per week.

4. Would it be a good idea to keep the temp in the QT around ~74 to slow down the metabolism of the fish for feeding purposes? I don't think it would help or hurt.

 

[SDguy]

Also, how big is your HOB filter? I have two aquaclears on my little 15g QT (though admittedly I have a ton of fish in there). Point being you can't overdo the biofiltration in a QT, so...