above tank refugium questions

[bwhite33]

The picture in my head is to have a 75 gallon 36X20X24, 6 inches of sand, with one triangular (10x10x10) ceramic ledge held up by a leg/pillar on each corner of the ledge. This ledge would be about 9 inches from the water surface. Other ceramic rock-scaping, low grotto type, to divide up the tank area and provide hiding areas

Planned stocking: (I ran the tank stocking by Steve in the beginners thread.)
- Bonded pair of Randall Shrimp Gobies, with shrimp
- Bonded pair Chinstrap Jawfish
- Sun Corals under the ledge (more in the shade)
- Squamosa Clam on the ledge if feasible to do this, using an LED pendant)
- 1 Yellow Assessor(s)
- 1 Pygmy Wrasse
- Maybe an Orchid Dottyback

The sump would be a skimmer, reactor, ATO a non-refugium style sump. If possible this is where I want almost all of the filtering to be done.

I am planning to have a macro algae/sea-grass refugium that can overflow into the DT, being fed from the sump. I was thinking a 36X13X16 30 gal or so.
I would love the refugium to really be able to help the pod population, and I don't want one that just has a ball of Chaeto

Some questions:

- Does the tank need to cycle before the refugium can be planted?
- Is there a minimum/maximum amount of flow that should got through the refugium if pod production is the main goal?
- Does there need to be a wave maker of any sort in the refugium?
- How deep does the sand need to be?
- Does live rock need to be used to seed the refugium or do the plants bring all you need? If needed should it be placed in the refugium after the system cycles?


Sorry for the book, but I like to measure a bunch before I cut once.

Thanks

 

[drunkenmonk]

Hi,Bwhite

You can plant the refugium when you start the cycle, plants love the ammonia just as much as the nitrates.
Most macros need some flow to get their nutrients and discard waste or anything that sits on them.
Enough flow to not have much if any dead spots in the tank would be what you should aim for.
Sand depth is up to you most macros dont need sand to grow, but a few do. If you plan on putting any that require planting in sand, then 3-4 inches should be enough.
Live rock doesnt need to be used but you need to find somewhere to bring in the pods. Some may come on the plants but I would rely on just that. Maybe a few pieces of live rock to seed it.

Hope that helps a bit.

Josh

 

[bwhite33]

Thanks Josh, it's a lot of help.

A few more if you don't mind

- So would it be planting and N. cycle, then live rocks?
- Is opposite light period the way to run the tanks?
- Is there a particular color range for LED lights?

Thanks,

bryan

 

[drunkenmonk]

What I meant with the planting is that you can plant them right at the start of the tank.
The live rocks you can just throw in after cycle.
Opposite light periods help stabilize the ph so that would be the way to go.
I have had good results with 6.5k whites and 450nm blues. You can throw in whatever other colors you want, I only every had the 2 on mine.

 

[bwhite33]

Josh, you were real clear, I wasn't.
You answered what I was asking.

- Is there a ball park time that it would take a setup like that to become mature?
- Will putting LR and plants in the refugium allow the DSB in the DT to become mature?

Thanks so much for you time and advice.

bryan

 

[dppitone]

We keep several fuges on the top levels above the display tanks for pod cultivation. IME and preference, sand/rock/macros are all needed for to have good pod populations, so I'd suggest several inches of sand on the bottom for them to scour, a ledge of live rock for pod habitat, and then halfway to the surface left open to be covered with macros for more habitat.

Having proper habitats is important because there is a food cycle going on between amphipods/copepods and smaller zoo. The copepods need to have a defense against the predator varieties and the amphipods, so rock habitat is very important.

No pumps in there, the only circulation is from the return pump flow, so the return pump and/or manifold should be planned to give about 4X turnover circulation.

Also, and this is a matter of opinion and preference, I would not put any macros in before the Nitrates go up in the bacteria cycle.

Here's one of our new fuges, just started up about three weeks ago in a 55g -

Dave

 

[drunkenmonk]

It all takes time to mature and will prolly take a few months for it to be booming with pods and life.
Everything in this hobby takes time and patience.
I would definitely put rock in, when you said live rock I assumed(not sure why) that you were going to put in dry rock and was asking if live rock was required. But after rereading your post im not sure thats what you meant. You will def need some rock to attach macros and for pods to live in and hide.
As for when to add the Macros, it makes no difference when you add them, macros actually prefer Ammonia (NH4) over Nitrates, then Phosphates.

dppitone do you have any tank threads I would very much love to see your systems, I love macro/refugium tanks!

Josh

 

[bwhite33]

Thanks Dave.

Also the couple more questions I added on.

- Is there a ball park time that it would take a setup like that to become mature?
- Will putting LR and plants in the refugium allow the DSB in the DT to become mature?

Thanks,

bryan

 

[bwhite33]

Josh,

It's probably a case of me, having an idea in my head, and not translating it well to the forum. (and I hadn't seen your pic intensive thread yet, nice btw, looking forward to your new setup)

I basically want your old macro tank to overflow into my planned DSB DT.
Then I want the DT to overflow to the sump where most of the water filtering work would be done.
Then some water to the Macro tank and the remainder back to the display tank.

Causing more confusion for me, in all this, is I had read someone recommending (Calfo maybe) that a DSB DT not be stocked for a long period of time to let the sandbed get established. For my own aesthetic sense and not wanting any bad hitchhikers in the DT I only wanted to go ceramic rock in the DT.

I sort of know what I want, and I think it all can work together somehow.

Thanks,

bryan

 

[dppitone]

I don't know of any blanket rule about not stocking a DT for some long periods after putting in sand. It really depends on the details of the system. The sand cycles just like the rock and when the cycle is over it's over. Just don't stock up the DT right away, do it gradually.

The refugium if for pods should only be stocked with pods. The right types of tropical snails won't hurt. But you shouldn't put in anything that will prey on the pods or sand worms. So it can be started right after the cycle for certain.

I only use harvested live reef rock so can't speak to ceramic or other built stuff.