Achilis Needs Help Urgent

[luamada]

I have been treating the tank for Ich over the last two weeks. The first dose we treated for 4 days and noticed that the Ich was gone, but then two days later the Achillis had the spots on him and we started treating again. It has been a little over a week and it looks like it is getting worse. Is this Ich or some other Bacteria or fungus we don't know about. He is still eating but looking very lethargic. He is eating flakes and brine coated in garlic. We hVe him the display tank which is 350G. He was removed from the quarantined tank because of an ammonia spike and put in he display tank. The parameters are Amonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 2, and Phosphate .36, ph 8.3, What does it look like in the picture? The treatment is Ich Attack Natural Herbal Formula. Is this any good? What to do? I need urgent advice.

 

[wooden_reefer]

When you put an ich infested fish from QT into DT because of ammonia in QT, did you think of the consequence?

Looks like you have many fish that will get infested soon, what are your prepared to do?

How are you going to support all the fish during, first treatment and then for the fallowing period in the DT?

Seems to me that calamity is about to hit. You quite possibly will lose all the fish.

Two things to do now.

1. Remove the ich infested tang from DT. It is better that it dies and not all the fish.

2. ASAP cycle medium to support all the fish. Use 20 pounds of crushed coral or many pads or sponges as medium, start a robust cycle to cultivate enough bacteria to support all you fish. If ich does not hit within three weeks, you will be in better shape when it does.

You did most everything wrong.

1. The QT should have no ammonia because the medium in the QT should have been cycled well enough to process all ammonia possible.

2. The purpose of QT deserves great commitment. A fish facing ammonia in QT is not reason to abandon QT, because much worse can happen and likely will to you.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

I have been treating the tank for Ich over the last two weeks. The first dose we treated for 4 days and noticed that the Ich was gone, but then two days later the Achillis had the spots on him and we started treating again. It has been a little over a week and it looks like it is getting worse. Is this Ich or some other Bacteria or fungus we don't know about. He is still eating but looking very lethargic. He is eating flakes and brine coated in garlic. We hVe him the display tank which is 350G. He was removed from the quarantined tank because of an ammonia spike and put in he display tank. The parameters are Amonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 2, and Phosphate .36, ph 8.3, What does it look like in the picture? The treatment is Ich Attack Natural Herbal Formula. Is this any good? What to do? I need urgent advice.

What were you using to treat for ich? The Ich Attack? It's useless. Read the stickies at the top of the forum on crypto. There is no reef safe remedy. All fish must be removed and placed in a hospital tank for treatment. However the problem you now have is the same as what caused you to introduce a sick fish into the main...ammonia in the QT. Are you able to get something like a Prime to lock the ammonia? You can also try to seed the QT with Bio Spira. In the mean time the main tank will have to be fallow for at least 11 weeks.
Sorry for the really bad news but there is absolutely no easy answer to your problem.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Do not waste time seeding anything in DT. Your bioload is obviously great and seeding in DT alone is completely useless.

Bacteria seeds can be obtained by some substrate from DT instantly, no need to soak in DT for any length of time. Using some water from DT to cycle also helps.


Cycle deliberately and in a separate container medium (crushed coral or sponges/pads) intended for QT now. Use a strong pulse of ammonia to start, either ammonia from a bottle (no additives) or decay from shrimp meat blended into milk. Do not use whole shrimp to decay; whole shrimp takes too long to decay.

You can also use half-cycled medium because ammonia is really the dreaded chemical and nitrite is far less toxic. As soon as nitrite has peaked but has not dropped, you can use the medium (most of it the rest to complete the cycle) by first rinsing away the high level of nitrite and then use only the medium without any cycling water.

 

[luamada]

Right now i have just rock And sand on the DT. is there any other meds that will work but will not kill the bacterias?
All the fishes were in two tanks 90G and 55 G. The 90 is up and running for awhile the 55G has all the corals. I also have a 10G running the 10g and 90 now have no fishes.
I did a robust cycle on the DT and have had no issue with the water quality.
I have used ich attack before twice and both time on my 72G It worked well. Both of my fishes in that tank are almost 10 years now. I am doing exactly what I did 5 years ago when I had ich on the 72g when I introduced the powder blue. All the fishes are doing great on the 72g.
I am afraid what the Achilles has is a fungus issue as it looks like ich in parts but it has a odd look in the whole body. Idk how to distinguish it. I am feeding them all with garlic soaked food. The rocks are all glued which makes impossible to remove them.
How can I find out if it really is ich? What kind of meds can I treat the whole DT?

 

[luamada]

My purple also had ich and now it's gone since I started the treatment.

 

[wooden_reefer]

For a FO DT, you can try hypo. Hypo when gradually brought down does not harm nitrification bacteria, but hypo tends to kill lives that cannot take low salinity and their death and decay can cause ammonia surge that can overload unharmed bacteria. Have Prime or Amquel ready.

Copper will also kill off many lives; neither does copper have much impact on nitrifiaction. Copper is more effective than hypo IME but copper could render the substrate unsuitable for reef for a long time. Certain copper formulations cannot be used with Prime or Amquel, however.

If you are not very seriously into this hobby, the lazy way is to treat the DT directly.

But robustly cycling medium for QT ASAP is likely wise. Ich may not break out at once. After you have cycled medium to support all fish, you can eradicate ich without major risky operation with the DT.

 

[luamada]

For a FO DT, you can try hypo. Hypo when gradually brought down does not harm nitrification bacteria, but hypo tends to kill lives that cannot take low salinity and their death and decay can cause ammonia surge that can overload unharmed bacteria. Have Prime or Amquel ready.

Copper will also kill off many lives; neither does copper have much impact on nitrifiaction. Copper is more effective than hypo IME but copper could render the substrate unsuitable for reef for a long time. Certain copper formulations cannot be used with Prime or Amquel, however.

If you are not very seriously into this hobby, the lazy way is to treat the DT directly.

But robustly cycling medium for QT ASAP is likely wise. Ich may not break out at once. After you have cycled medium to support all fish, you can eradicate ich without major risky operation with the DT.

i am very serious about this hoby and i wouldnt waste $25k if I wasnt. i had the fishes in the 90G and 55G watching them for 3 months before i had the problem with ammonia which may have been the cause for the ich to begin with. i did use prime and after that didnnot work AMQUEL which did not work either so i defcided in an crazy act to moven them all to the DT (had been cycling for 2 month and had no ammonia (still doesnt have it)
once i decided to move them to DT i had no choice but move them all to avoid aggression which did work since they all get along.
moving all the fishes back into the 90 will cause a major stress. the ones that had signed of ich were one yellow, the 3 blue, the purple and the achilles. the purple is cleaned. one blue is almost cleaned the yellow is better too. now we have 2 blues and the achilles which is the worst. i noticed the purple had spent a lot time with the cleaning shrimp and so did the blue. i also saw the yellow there too. i noticed the shrimp on the achillis today. maybe is the shrimp and not the medication. but i have used the ich attach before and it worked since i have no shrimp on that tank. one thing i can guarantee is i am a caring reefer and also serious about it. i am not going to use copper on the DT for obvious reasons. any other medication that will not kill the bacterias i will be glad to use it. thank you

 

[luamada]

What were you using to treat for ich? The Ich Attack? It's useless. Read the stickies at the top of the forum on crypto. There is no reef safe remedy. All fish must be removed and placed in a hospital tank for treatment. However the problem you now have is the same as what caused you to introduce a sick fish into the main...ammonia in the QT. Are you able to get something like a Prime to lock the ammonia? You can also try to seed the QT with Bio Spira. In the mean time the main tank will have to be fallow for at least 11 weeks.
Sorry for the really bad news but there is absolutely no easy answer to your problem.

i want in the future to have corals (from my other tank) i knwo copper is not an option as it will condem my DT forever. i will read about this crypto. i did use bio spire on the 90G i did not work for the ammonia. idk why.

 

[Flippers4pups]

This is why my new set up will have multiple QT's and use TTM for any ich.

 

[luamada]

what is TTM

 

[Kurkis493]

The herbal remedies, garlic feeding, cleaner shrimp / fish do not cure ich. This much is known. At this point for me, ich is one of the very last thing I even fear in my aquarium.

I would do the tank transfer method (TTM) which will solve many of your current problems.

I have used this method several times with success on new additions - It is fast and easy.

Since you will be moving the fish so often, you are not going to need to worry much about ammonia in the system building up while you are doing it. I always use filter pad and some bio-spira for each transfer just to be safe. Many people use Prime (this product works when used properly).

This will resolve your issues with ich and I would simply treat all of your fish because some could be hosts and not showing symptoms. You will need to use a few containers (cheap) and make sure you have a couple of heaters and powerheads / air stones.

While the fish are under going treatment, I would drain the hospital tank and clean that out to ensure it is parasite free, fill it back up and then perhaps add some clean rock from another source so you have biological filtration and a place to put the fish until the DT is cleared up.

The DT needs to sit now for 11 weeks which was mentioned to ensure the parasite is eradicated from the tank. Moving forward, I would personally TTM all new fish along with a dose of prazi pro to ensure health.

 

[wooden_reefer]

i am very serious about this hoby and i wouldnt waste $25k if I wasnt. i had the fishes in the 90G and 55G watching them for 3 months before i had the problem with ammonia which may have been the cause for the ich to begin with. i did use prime and after that didnnot work AMQUEL which did not work either so i defcided in an crazy act to moven them all to the DT (had been cycling for 2 month and had no ammonia (still doesnt have it)
once i decided to move them to DT i had no choice but move them all to avoid aggression which did work since they all get along.
moving all the fishes back into the 90 will cause a major stress. the ones that had signed of ich were one yellow, the 3 blue, the purple and the achilles. the purple is cleaned. one blue is almost cleaned the yellow is better too. now we have 2 blues and the achilles which is the worst. i noticed the purple had spent a lot time with the cleaning shrimp and so did the blue. i also saw the yellow there too. i noticed the shrimp on the achillis today. maybe is the shrimp and not the medication. but i have used the ich attach before and it worked since i have no shrimp on that tank. one thing i can guarantee is i am a caring reefer and also serious about it. i am not going to use copper on the DT for obvious reasons. any other medication that will not kill the bacterias i will be glad to use it. thank you

If your setup is correct in terms of having enough cycled medium, circulation and flow and no addition of new livestock, and if there has not been any ammonia problem for two months, then ammonia problem should not happen. Did you use any drug that harms nitrification bacteria?

Nitrification is very dependable; it is an aerobic process and as long as you have good circulation, gaseous exchange, no salinity or PH shock, nitrification is certain.

I suggest that you do not use the term "stress" loosely. More precisely, is there no ammonia, good gaseous exchange, circulation, security, space, and nutrition for the fish?

"Stress" really has little to do with ich. Ich is a matter of confinement and lack of dilution of the open sea, of a pathogenically closed tank. Eradication is necessary.

Cycling the medium for QT in advance works well to eliminate ammonia in QT no matter how many fish and how big they are; even 10 10-inch fish. (unless one has to use a drug that harms nitrification bacteria, usually an antibiotic to treat bacteria infection).

In your situation, cycling enough medium to support all fish will work to eliminate ich by treating fish and then waiting for DT for fallow out, total about 12 weeks. Cycling this way often takes about 3-4 weeks; then all your fish will be supported without ammonia.

 

[wooden_reefer]

The herbal remedies, garlic feeding, cleaner shrimp / fish do not cure ich. This much is known. At this point for me, ich is one of the very last thing I even fear in my aquarium.

I would do the tank transfer method (TTM) which will solve many of your current problems.

I have used this method several times with success on new additions - It is fast and easy.

Since you will be moving the fish so often, you are not going to need to worry much about ammonia in the system building up while you are doing it. I always use filter pad and some bio-spira for each transfer just to be safe. Many people use Prime (this product works when used properly).

This will resolve your issues with ich and I would simply treat all of your fish because some could be hosts and not showing symptoms. You will need to use a few containers (cheap) and make sure you have a couple of heaters and powerheads / air stones.

While the fish are under going treatment, I would drain the hospital tank and clean that out to ensure it is parasite free, fill it back up and then perhaps add some clean rock from another source so you have biological filtration and a place to put the fish until the DT is cleared up.

The DT needs to sit now for 11 weeks which was mentioned to ensure the parasite is eradicated from the tank. Moving forward, I would personally TTM all new fish along with a dose of prazi pro to ensure health.

When ich has already broken out in DT, one has to support all fish while DT fallows for 12 weeks. Well enough cycled medium is practically necessary.

 

[Kurkis493]

Right and I addressed this in my initial post.

 

[Dapg8gt]

All you need to know is literally right above your posts in the disease forum.. As others have said there is no bottle you can add and have itmagically dissappear .

You need to read the sticky' at the top of the disease forum. They are stickies because it is known and tested to work..

Here's the one you need to read first..
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1992196

Then move on to others (stickys) to see if you have anything else going on.. Waiting for answers is not as efficient as just reading the best knowledge we have as of late in the exact area you need it literally right at the top of this disease forum.. The ones written by snorvich (spelling) are from a super knowledgeable reefer and has been around the block and is very good at explaining things in terms people can understand and sharing practices with the highest success rate, along with why it works...