Acrylic fabrication questions? I can help!

[Andrew17030]

Thank you, I would like to build it myself. However, I bite off more than I can chew occasionally. I will check prices for product against a professional build. I was quoted $425 by a local builder. What should the amount of material I need cost so I can better understand what I am being quoted? Again, thank you for your time. Should I call acrylic fabricators or aquarium builders? I live in Phoenix so Tencor is close.

 

[Acrylics]

Hey james, ive noticed you mentioning "stressing acrylic" when bonding, im assuming that you mean the solvents stress the acrylic, which stresses the acrylic less, casting or solvent bonding?

IME, both are pretty much the same.

Thank you, I would like to build it myself. However, I bite off more than I can chew occasionally. I will check prices for product against a professional build. I was quoted $425 by a local builder. What should the amount of material I need cost so I can better understand what I am being quoted? Again, thank you for your time. Should I call acrylic fabricators or aquarium builders? I live in Phoenix so Tencor is close.

If you're trying to get pricing, call both but make sure you tell them what it is. Some acrylic fabricators simply will not do tanks, some will. has to do with experience and what their insurance limitations are.

As for pricing of material, I can't answer that. Depends on brand, local market pricing, and so on. And I can't say what a retail, cut-to-size order should be since I don't do that.

James

 

[jcolley]

Hopefully this is the right place for this, if not please move it...

I bought (on the cheap) a used BubbleMaster 250 skimmer and after getting it home, realized the cone portion was separating from the base cylinder. I have since removed the two from each other completely and cleaned up the edges.

I bought some #4 and applicator needles, but I've never played with this before, so I'm a little iffy.

Do I need to use the pins to space the joint? The cone sits just inside the main body, so it may be tough/impossible to get the spacing I need without warping the cone.

Would it be sufficient to apply the solvent to both pieces, slip the cone in, and line it up until it sets?

 

[Acrylics]

is the cone a structural component of the skimmer? if not, just place it and squirt the solvent into the joint. Wiggle it around just a touch and it should be fine. If you can pick it up, just a couple thousanths of an inch, after the solvent is in there - can help

James

 

[chriscobb]

James curious as to which is a better solvent......WeldOn 4 or the MCBond solvent?

 

[jdwreefer]

So I tried building a Calcium reactor out of acrylic tube and pvc fittings. But the joints of the tube and fittings leak a lot all around the joins. I used purple primer and pvc cement to glue the pieces together, I put plenty of glue on both pieces before connecting them. I thought maybe the glue just didn't bond the pvc and acrylic well, so I got pvc tube and made another set, but those leaked too. The tubes are 4.5" outer diameter (4" pvc pipe). Could the problem be my glue is too old? It was kinda thick. Maybe I needed to use even more glue than I did? Could I just gob silicone around the joints on the inside to seal the leaks? Or an epoxy/paint?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I believe to bond Acrylic to PVC you need to use Weld-on 2007. PVC cement does not bond well to acrylic, if at all.

 

[Acrylics]

James curious as to which is a better solvent......WeldOn 4 or the MCBond solvent?

IMO MCBond is better, but harder to get.

So I tried building a Calcium reactor out of acrylic tube and pvc fittings. But the joints of the tube and fittings leak a lot all around the joins. I used purple primer and pvc cement to glue the pieces together, I put plenty of glue on both pieces before connecting them. I thought maybe the glue just didn't bond the pvc and acrylic well, so I got pvc tube and made another set, but those leaked too. The tubes are 4.5" outer diameter (4" pvc pipe). Could the problem be my glue is too old? It was kinda thick. Maybe I needed to use even more glue than I did? Could I just gob silicone around the joints on the inside to seal the leaks? Or an epoxy/paint?

Very possible the cement is too old. Tetrahydrafuran (THF) is the primary active ingredient in PVC pipe cement and it is *very* volatile - meaning it evaporates very quickly, leaving a worthless cement. IMO get a new can of cement and try it again
As for the acrylic to PVC joint: While *some* PVC pipe cements can glue PVC to acrylic, simply not the correct "glue" for the application. Only thing that is very good for that is Weld-on 40 - available at acrylic distributors and usually by special order.

IMO silicone is rather worthless for this application, but at this point - won't hurt.

James

 

[Acrylics]

I believe to bond Acrylic to PVC you need to use Weld-on 2007. PVC cement does not bond well to acrylic, if at all.

Weld-on 2007 is straight THF with a little MEK in it. Essentially PVC pipe cement without the PVC monomer (thickener)

James

 

[chriscobb]

James if you make your initial bond with WeldOn4 would running a bead of WeldOn 42 over the seam hurt anything?

 

[noobtothereef]

Its me again, sorry for bombarding you with so many questions but i now have another one. For putting a 45 degree angle on the edge of 1.5" acrylic, you mentioned building a jig for a hand held router, could you fill me in on how this is done? You ever use a table like this?

 

[noplay180]

My first sump project

My first sump project

O.k. I glued my sump all together not that happy with some of the joints haven't did a water test yet wondering should i use weldon 16 on the the joints i assume may leak or should i just water test and find out if it leaks. Hmmm

 

[Acrylics]

James if you make your initial bond with WeldOn4 would running a bead of WeldOn 42 over the seam hurt anything?

It *can* so not really recommended, though it is done.

Its me again, sorry for bombarding you with so many questions but i now have another one. For putting a 45 degree angle on the edge of 1.5" acrylic, you mentioned building a jig for a hand held router, could you fill me in on how this is done? You ever use a table like this?

Nope, never said anything about using a handheld router. I don't like using them, esp on heavy gauge acrylic.
Don't like the table set-up as it is designed to use the end of a router bit - big no-no IMO, but do have one of those router bases, not bad, but not *real* strong either. That said, they're well worth the $100 or whatever it was to buy it

O.k. I glued my sump all together not that happy with some of the joints haven't did a water test yet wondering should i use weldon 16 on the the joints i assume may leak or should i just water test and find out if it leaks. Hmmm

If the joints are not strong enough - WO 16 will not help. It *may* act as a sealant, but will not add any significant strength. Some folks may add 16 to joints, but I never do and never recommend it.

If you had a pinpoint hole, I could see it. But if the joints are bad, 16 won't do much.

James

 

[noplay180]

no leaks on the perimeter so far i will check in the am before work. I may use weldon 16 to seal a baffle leak

 

[jdwreefer]

Very possible the cement is too old. Tetrahydrafuran (THF) is the primary active ingredient in PVC pipe cement and it is *very* volatile - meaning it evaporates very quickly, leaving a worthless cement. IMO get a new can of cement and try it again
As for the acrylic to PVC joint: While *some* PVC pipe cements can glue PVC to acrylic, simply not the correct "glue" for the application. Only thing that is very good for that is Weld-on 40 - available at acrylic distributors and usually by special order.

IMO silicone is rather worthless for this application, but at this point - won't hurt.

James

I read up on Weld-on #40 and it recommends that both pieces are annealed before gluing. If they aren't annealed the joint will craze and weaken. Do you think this would be a problem? Looking at other cements, Weld-on #1802 also bonds acrylic to rigid pvc, and is thin and doesn't require annealing. With this I could dry fit the pieces and apply the Weld-on into the fit joints, and it should bond the two together. Do you think that would work?

Here's the data sheet for Weld-on #1802: http://www.curbellplastics.com/technical-resources/pdf/bond-acrylic-weldon-1802.pdf

 

[Acrylics]

I read up on Weld-on #40 and it recommends that both pieces are annealed before gluing. If they aren't annealed the joint will craze and weaken.

BS, sorry but IPS is full of it. If you're using extruded tube - it might though. Haven't played with extruded tube in a while.

Looking at other cements, Weld-on #1802 also bonds acrylic to rigid pvc, and is thin and doesn't require annealing. With this I could dry fit the pieces and apply the Weld-on into the fit joints, and it should bond the two together. Do you think that would work?

Here's the data sheet for Weld-on #1802: http://www.curbellplastics.com/technical-resources/pdf/bond-acrylic-weldon-1802.pdf

don't waste your time and money on 1802, but go ahead if you want. 1802 is just Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) available at any hardware store. It sucks as a solvent, but workable in a pinch.

Your choice, but 40 would be mine without hesitation.

James

 

[bioload]

There are a number of ways; blow molding into a female form, vacuum forming onto a male form, laminate a bunch of pieces together and stick the whole thing on a lathe

Hi James, Can cast be be blown/vacuumed over 12"?

 

[Acrylics]

Hi James, Can cast be be blown/vacuumed over 12"?

yup...hot tubs and showers are formed acrylic, as examples
of course they're cross-linked acrylic for the deep draws, but yes - cast acrylic can be drawn well over 12"

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Router Table Update

Router Table Update

Since I built the frame of the table, it's been one thing after another, so I haven't got much done yet, but I do have pics to share, and I got the router plate too. All I need now is a free day and I should be able to get it pretty close to done.

So, here's the frame and legs:

The legs were pretty unstable with just screws so I added brackets all around

This is what I used for the feet, just drill a big hole then screw in the bracket, and twist on the foot, which is heavy-duty, swivels, and adjusts by turning (as it should for $30 for 4)

And I got 2 aluminum plates, they are about 9/16" thick

Which conveniently have lots of holes drilled in them, several countersunk, and they're I think 11 x 16 so they will work out nicely for my push-pull mounting idea. So you don't have to search back for it, I am planning on setting in bolts with the sunken nut like this:

I will put one of these adjacent to the hold-down bolt/screw, either with the hold-down between the push-up and the corner of the plate, or vice versa - however it works out best (I don't know if there is an advantage or disadvantage either way). Then I can adjust the bolt from underneath to push up and level the aluminum plate, then once it's right, I will sink screws or bolts from above through the countersunk holes. I imagine that I will have to have metal plates on the underside to prevent the nuts from depressing into the wood over time.

So I have to drill the hole in the plate for the router head, and figure out how to mount the router to the plate. then buy the MDF and cut the holes, laminate them together, mount on the table, mount the plate, and adhere the polished Formica. Before I do all that, I have to trim 3" off each leg (with a saws-all, that should be fun) and double-check the top framing to make sure it's level, probably do some planing and sanding, etc. Plus I have to add a 2x4 frame around the bottom of the legs for stability, probably a few cross-braces...

Hmmmm...might need more than one free day...

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

One question, unrelated to the router table. This one has been dogging me for a while. Is there a particular trick to getting 2 edges square to each other? Short of taking a sheet to the local acrylic shop and having them cut it for me on a panel saw, how do you do this using a table saw and router table?