Adding fish to DT after QT question

[angnak]

My attempt at an Achilles from LA got me thinking. He passed after 5 days from something I am not sure what it was. Here is the thread on him. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2281126
So, he never showed signs of ich, not saying he couldn't have later but not the point of this thread. My point is if you get a fish and put it in QT for say 2 months and never medicate that fish. During those two months of never showing signs of anything, would you add him to your DT without medicating it? The thought of it to me is mixed since no signs obviously he is healthy but could still have something one of the other fish in the DT couldn't fight off. I have had my two tangs for almost 11 years now and the other fish in there were never QT'ed. I did have a break out a while back when I introduced a new fish but everyone survived (Moved them all to a hospital tank and treated, lesson learned. Play with fire too long you will get burned). I have a black tang, a naso tang, bellus, starcki, two snowflake clowns (breeding), lyretail anthias (1), yellow watchman with shrimp, and chromis (2) currently and all are doing great. Last addition was the bellus almost two years ago. I wanted to get an Achilles so I setup a 75 gallon QT to make sure but was going to try not to medicate unless it was absolutely needed. I always had in the back of my mind the above question, should I just in case or just roll with it. What are your thoughts?

 

[HumbleFish]

I prophylactically treat for parasites and worms because both Ich and Flukes can be in the gills, with no visible symptoms present. Sure, you should still notice head twitching or scratching... but I don't sit in front of my QT long enough to be comfortable with just passive observation. Just my 2 cents.

 

[reef80]

Sorry to hear about your lost. There are so many reasons why these fish may just suddenly die without some of the more common symptoms of velvet, ick and flutes and the list goes on and on. I too just recently aquire a Archillis but was too fearful to tx it in qt unless it show signs because of what people have said they don't do well w/ copper and such. I had him in a separate 140 gallon for about 3 weeks and just recently added him to my 210. My thing is if it makes it past the 3 week benchmark and I didn't have to tx it then it will be fine. I know others would disagreed but this is my expereince. I do have the common meds handly in case too. So, I would add a fish to my display after three weeks of not showing anything. If I have to tx it w/ meds then the three week benchmark startes when the medication regimen is over.

 

[MrTuskfish]

This comes up a lot. You'll find (I think you will,anyhow) that many experienced people prophylacticly treat all new fish and others don't. I don't think there is a consensus either way and there are good arguments (IMO) on both sides. Don't let the Achilles be the deciding factor on this subject. They are one of the hardest fish to acclimate and many are lost no matter which method you choose.

 

[scuzy]

I always proactive treat for flukes and ich. Not risking introduction of any parasites. There is no way of seeing if a fish has anything cause sometimes the symptoms don't show.

 

[SDguy]

It depends on the fish for me. Generally speaking, fish that would be tough enough to not show signs of ich or flukes after 2 months would probably be strong enough to deal with prophylactic treatment, so that's what I do. Most butterflies don't fall into the category, IME. So if nothing shows up on one for 2 months, I won't do copper. I will do prazi still.

 

[Reefnation.Jon]

I tank tranfer everything before going into DT. depending on the fish I will also treat with either prozipro or quickcure for other parasites, worms, and infections.

 

[angnak]

Thanks everyone and reef80. The Achilles isn't the deciding factor for me it just got me thinking. I know there is back and forth whether they tolerate certain medicines and just got me thinking if I didn't medicate him and I brought ich or anything else into the system I would be pretty upset at myself but at the same time I would like to think my fish are strong enough and healthy enough to overcome it.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Thanks everyone and reef80. The Achilles isn't the deciding factor for me it just got me thinking. I know there is back and forth whether they tolerate certain medicines and just got me thinking if I didn't medicate him and I brought ich or anything else into the system I would be pretty upset at myself but at the same time I would like to think my fish are strong enough and healthy enough to overcome it.

IME & IMO; Achilles tolerate copper very well; if administered properly (in other words, my way). Thinking that your fish are strong enough to tolerate ich is a big mistake. Example: A yellow tang is one of the hardiest fish we keep, but very susceptible to ich. Some fish may have some temporary immunity to someofstrains ich. That has nothing to do to with their basic strength and health. I think my fish are as strong & healthy as they come and my DTs have been ich-free for years. That means that they have had no way of acquiring any immunity to ich. Ich in my system could be a disaster.

 

[angnak]

Oh, mine have seen ich. I use to look at my black tang wrong and I would see a couple spots but he would always be fine after a couple days. It was my first attempt at an achilles is the last time it got bad, not even sure it was ich since it had such a fast kill rate. Bought it about 6" and fat and happy. LFS told me they had it QT'ed for a couple weeks before bringing him out so I thought all was ok. Good tank mate to everyone but I didn't QT. He broke out with something and then the black tang. Noticed some on my orange shoulder a few days later (died after all this mysteriously). Yanked everyone out and into a hospital tank. Sold the achilles. Everyone but the black, orange shoulder and Naso died. Got them looking good again and kept the DT fishless for 12 weeks. It had just been so long before that that I had bought any new fish and couldn't pass up on him when I walked into the lfs. They were all the original tank crew for me. So that is why I am thinking about this again since I am nervous from my first attempt at an achilles. Even if he looks good doesn't mean he doesn't have anything. But do you add a fish to a DT with no meds before hand is what this really is about. Still thinking about trying again. I just think he had something when he came in and the added stress of the shipping pushed him over. Do you use cupramine, MrTuskfish?

 

[scuzy]

Always qt dont assume trust no one but yourself. Tangs are very easy to treat just make sure they are eating well first. My 3.5 achilles is eating well and is doing great in the 100 gallon qt with my 4 other tangs they do swing quit a bit and using one of those cheap jebaos wp40 they love swinging against the current in it. Just 8 more weeks till they go back into display. I wouldn't be in this mess if i didn't trust someone saying they qt their cardinals before introducing jnto my display.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Never accept a LFS to quarantine your fish. The don't and it would make fish much more expensive. LFS consider a QT as just keeping and feeding the fish.

 

[angnak]

My lfs had a huge qt system they would keep them back there for 2 weeks to over a month before letting them go to the front for sale and use to allow me to go back there and look at everything. They stopped letting me back there because of a move to a lot larger facility and had a lot more foot traffic in the store but still had the same staff so I trusted them. Then there was a lot of turn over and I assumed they were still qting since a few of the same faces were there. Turns out the fish ordering and care guy was one of the folks that left. My assumption was wrong and I accept that. Like I said above it was years before I bought a new fish, at that point at least 5 years. Yes I went in assuming but all past experience lead me to believe they were still at it. They got too big for their own good and did turn into that. I did find out recently they run copper in some of their tanks but still see fish with ich in there now. Same owner but horrible store now. Only other store close to me is even worse. Small store that has horrible customer service and has old expired dry goods. But back to the topic.

 

[scuzy]

Copper i. The store system is typical but the fish are not in their long enough to eradicate the ih since we all know that ich only dies from coffer on the free swimming stage. So if they are attach to the fish they are not affected.

 

[MrTuskfish]

LFS run copper at a level that has little effect on ich. I think algae control is the main benefit. Cu at these low levels can also help hide velvet, far deadlier than ich.

 

[MrTuskfish]

My lfs had a huge qt system they would keep them back there for 2 weeks to over a month before letting them go to the front for sale and use to allow me to go back there and look at everything. They stopped letting me back there because of a move to a lot larger facility and had a lot more foot traffic in the store but still had the same staff so I trusted them. Then there was a lot of turn over and I assumed they were still qting since a few of the same faces were there. Turns out the fish ordering and care guy was one of the folks that left. My assumption was wrong and I accept that. Like I said above it was years before I bought a new fish, at that point at least 5 years. Yes I went in assuming but all past experience lead me to believe they were still at it. They got too big for their own good and did turn into that. I did find out recently they run copper in some of their tanks but still see fish with ich in there now. Same owner but horrible store now. Only other store close to me is even worse. Small store that has horrible customer service and has old expired dry goods. But back to the topic.

The key word is "system". In these "holding" facilities; water goes from tank to tank, and so do the parasites. A few weeks of this holding is no substitution for quarantine as we know it.