Advice on staining wood?

B

becact

New member
For those of you who have built your own stands and finished the wood yourselves, do you have any advice on staining? I bought an oil based stain to go over my oak cabinet. It was thoroughly sanded up to 220, cleaned off with mineral spirits, then the stain was applied. The stain went on really thick and unevenly, obscuring the grain. I used a foam brush and long even strokes, but some of it pooled in the corners and such. I waited the suggested 15 minutes and tried to wipe off the excess, but it had already started to dry.

In desperation, I grabbed a roll of paper towels and tried to wipe all the stain off to start over. It turns out I thinned the stain so much, and wiped off so much excess, that it actually looks pretty good now, ironically:

04042009-1.jpg


It is still a bit uneven overall, but I will try to put another coat on in a few days when I have time.

My main question is, what did I do wrong? Should I have thinned the stain from the start, or did I wait too long to wipe off the excess? I wiped some off right from the get-go, but my wiping took nearly all the stain off, leaving my red mahogany stain a golden oak color.

Also, will the stain that is on there now dry OK considering there was a whole bunch of mineral spirits mixed with it, and wiped all over the wood?

Thanks for any tips!
 
There are tons of stain types so this could be something I am not aware of but, I'll give it a whirl.

I have not thinned my stains with mineral spirits. The stain is meant to color the wood and will do so by the length of time it is allowed to penetrate the woods fibers. That being said I envision you trying to do too much at one time, freaked and started wiping it all up. If so the latter applied stain would not have the same soak time as the initial areas that were stained. Hope that make sense. Been there and done that.

Application tips: unless you are using a polyurethane/stain mix like "Polyshades" from Minwax I think, you dont have to use long straight strokes from your brush. I personally like to rag stains, meaning I take a rag, dip into the stain, and apply in a swirling or straight motion. Depending on the grain of the wood, straight grain on top or end grain on the edges, my soak times will vary. I dont let the stain soak in as much on the end grain because it is much more open and can soak up a lot of stain and look darker.

Unless you have some light spots or uneven areas your probably dont need to stain a second coat. Usually reserved for gaining a darker overall stain.

Last thing, looks like oak so hope you are using a wood conditioner. If not you might not get a completely even look. Wood conditioner tones the wood and allows for a more even stain absorption. Some woods need it and some dont.

Hope my rambling is helpful.
 
Thanks for the reply! Yes, I think I did try too much at once and freaked. There was stain pooling up and drying everywhere, so in desperation I tried to wipe it all off with the mineral spirits. This is my first time staining!

I am using just normal stain from Cabot, not a combined poly or anything. Yes, it is oak, but I've read the conditioner was usually best used on soft woods? It's a little too late now, anyway.

I plan to do the second coat just because there are a few areas and panels which are lighter than others, and it annoys me.

Thanks for the application tips. When I do the doors tomorrow I will try the rag technique. How long do you suggest for a soak time for panels of oak?
 
From the pictures it doesnt look discolored or mismatched. You are right on the conditioner, most times it is used for soft woods but I still use it on oak to get a more even look. Yes, it is too late now but no big deal.

For your doors I would do 1 surface at a time. Do the back first to get the hang of it then go to the front. Get your rag, wipe on the stain covering the area, then wipe of with a clean rag. Since you didnt use conditioner on the rest of the cabinet DONT use on your doors you can get a different result.

Did you make the stand? From your initial sentence I am assuming so. Two more bits of advice I learned the hard way, pre-drill and use soap for a "lubricant" as to not split the wood and have a wet rag to wipe up glue from squeeze out. I noticed on the bottom front trim piece it looks like a small split from a nail?? The problem with glue is it is tough to tell if all the glue has been addressed then you stain and bamm! there is a spot. Cant do much about it and it really isn't noticeable, just looking for problems I have had in the past.

The labor intensive part will be poly and sanding. Take your time and do a through job sanding then cleaning the area so there is no dust on your workpiece. This will give you a super smooth finish and make all your fish buddies jealous!! Good work and let us know what other questions you have.
 
I didn't build the stand, but I added some structural support inside, added some oak molding pieces on the outside, extended the canopy 6 inches, and am re-staining, obviously. I thoroughly sanded before re-staining.

Yes, I did get a split on that bottom piece :(. I tried filling it in with wood glue, but I guess it is still noticable, lol. I only have a tiny space in my garage to work (there is junk filling the rest), and no real power tools except a dinky table saw and cordless drill.

My doors are painted with Kilz on the back, so I can't test! I will just have to jump right in on it. I will definitely use the "less is more" approach this time around with the stain.

It doesn't look mismatched, but in real life it is a bit. I used solid red oak panels for the molding, but the stand was oak veneered plywood. Some of the new panels match the veneer when stained, but some are a little more red than the rest of the wood. Plus one of the side panels is light in the middle. So I thought another light coat would help blend everything together.

Should I sand between coats of stain? I have some 320 sandpaper, or I could use steel wool. I know I should sand between poly coats.
 
No you dont have to sand in between each stain. I cant think of an instance when I would sand in between stain coats, sure there is though. Keep in mind when you see a slight difference in color from your plywood to the real wood most times people look at the flat surface of the plywood and where it meets the edge of the real wood. I think I said this before on a reply, the edge of your trim is end grain which will be darker.

When you start to apply your poly, get all the dust off and make sure no fans are going. This way you dont end up with a ton of debris stuck to your workpiece. I use 0000 steel wool in between my coats, just make sure it is dry or you can make a real mess. Get yourself some tack cloth and wipe down the wood after everything is sanded. I usually do 3-4 coats, dont use your 320 as you will scratch it too much.

You make me want to go build something!!! So much fun!
 
I did the doors today with the cloth rubbing technique, and it was so much easier! I put a little dab on and thoroughly swirled it in until it was absorbed, then got a little more, etc etc. When it started to get "wet," (saturated?) I simply swiped it up with a dry cloth. I didn't drip any stain or waste any. I am definitely going to do my second coat this way.

I think I am going to sand the old stain simply because it is a bit uneven. The canopy, for example, is a lot darker red than the stand, because I had a thicker coat of stain on. Also, there are some pools and dark lines in the stain, especially on the canopy. I wish I had known about the rag technique before. But I think by giving it a light sanding, I should be able to make it work.

Thanks for the advice on the 0000 steel wool for the polyurethane. How long should I let each polyurethane coat dry before sanding and doing another coat? 24 hours?
 
I used to own a cabinet shop so I may be able to help. First, when you sanded with 220 you closed up the grains in the wood and that is why the stain was uneven. When I stain I start with 100 grit and step up to 180, wipe down the wood with a damp cloth (this helps to open the wood grain as well as remove saw dust) then stain. However, from you picture it looks like overall it turned out GREAT!

PS give the top coat at least 12 hours to cure before sanding to prep for the next coat.
 
Storm Rider I am currently in the procees of Polying my stand. Do you have any tips on not getting airbubbles. I am on my 3rd coat. The first 2 were clear gloss and for this one and possibly a fourth or fifth I am using semi gloss... also it is Helmsan Spar urethane by minwax. Also, I am using a brush to apply the poly. Don't mean to jack your thread be cat, but maybe my questions will help you out once you get to that stage.
 
No, I am definitely interested too. How exactly do you apply the poly? I guess you can't rub it in like with the stain, right? Do you recommend a natural bristle brush, or a foam brush, and how do I keep it from pooling in the corners?
 
I typically spray my poly but that isnt what you are doing. I would recommend using a decent quality brush so the bristles dont fall out into your poly, always lovely. Dont shake the can, stir the contents to reduce air bubbles up front. use long even strokes. You may still have some bubbles but sand lightly and re-apply.

I agree with stormrider opening the grain with a damp cloth really helps oak get a nice smooth consistent finish. Since oak's grain is a little more porous than say maple the water etc, will raise the grain. Then sand, clean, stain, and seal and you are in business. There is a technique called "filling the grain". This is ultimately the same process except you add filler to the oak which really levels the surface and fills the grain of oak type woods.
 
Ok now that is what I am looking into, is there special type of sprayer to spray poly or do you use a normal gravity feed one and a compressor. Do you have to thin it at all. And deffinitely follow what he said about a high quality brush, I just felt the pain of having bristles and crap fall out into mine... now I have to do another coat ughhhh.
 
I would say stormrider is going to have higher quality than what I have, because of his experience. I purchased a sprayer from Menards or Home Depot a few years back. Typical sprayer with resevoir on bottom and a Rigid compressor. I also bought some little filters to strain the liquid before use. The tips can be adjusted for wide or narrow spray as well as volume of spray. My biggest suggestion is PRACTICE! Overlap your applications slightly and start/stop spray when the gun is not pointed at your workpiece. I think I paid $60 for the gun??? I didnt thin my poly when I finished my cabinets and dresser.

You also need eye protection, a respirator, and good ventilation. I made a spray booth in my basement before we finished it. I painted an arcade cabinet I was doing, MAME (Whole other blog site and very fun!!)
 
For smaller projects I have used the spray can poly from Minwax, with very good results. I used the water based variety. it seems very forgiving in that it self levels as it dries. You still have to use good spray painting techniques as advised above, but the results versus my brushing methods were much better.
As for the staining advice, I have botched a few pieces in my time and have decent luck with sanding the entire piece down to where the colors appeared to be close and then applying a new coat, trying not to repeat the sins of the past.
Live and learn, and I'm still doing both!
 
I just put my second coat on yesterday. I actually did sand the pieces down, but not to where I sanded the whole stain off. I just went though the heavy spots and made the whole thing look even before applying the second coat with a better technique.
 
Hi All. Great thread! I am putting on the trim this weeked and I will be using pine. Is there anything I need to do differently from what you all mentioned above with oak? I also have a high volume, low pressure sprayer. Can I use that to aply the poly or would a good brush be better? Thanks.
 
I prefer to use my spray gun but it just depends on how much I will be spraying. If you have a small amount of trim it might be better to brush because of cleanup. My uncle just showed me some new catylic (sp) varnish than dries in just a few minutes. He can sand then spray 4 coats in less than an hour. I need to look more into this type.
 
Finished staining my cabinet :). After applying the poly, I sanded it down with 0000 steel wool, then waxed it with car wax. It looks great!
 
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