African fish possibly available on DD!!!!!
- Thread starter myerst2
- Start date
Mark
Premium Member
That would be a "common" name for Holacanthus africanus.
Kingi's are sort of protected by South Africa's funky restrictions. You see, if you live there, you can collect them for your own tanks, so long as you didn't catch them in protected waters. But, you can't sell them to anyone or export them. This applies to all marine fish. Kingi's are common in Aliwal Shoals, which is protected I think.
Kingi's are sort of protected by South Africa's funky restrictions. You see, if you live there, you can collect them for your own tanks, so long as you didn't catch them in protected waters. But, you can't sell them to anyone or export them. This applies to all marine fish. Kingi's are common in Aliwal Shoals, which is protected I think.
Luiz Rocha
Salty Dog
Here acouple of my photos of Holocanthus africanus:
The adult:
And here the juvenile, but it turns into adult coloration when it is very small, I am pretty sure I saw some with the full adult coloration as small as 5 cm.
Doesn't surprise me that they have it, I think I just saw they had Prognathodes marcellae and Bodianus speciosus for sale the other day (they occur in the same areas as H. africanus, so probably exported by the same collectors).
The adult:
And here the juvenile, but it turns into adult coloration when it is very small, I am pretty sure I saw some with the full adult coloration as small as 5 cm.
Doesn't surprise me that they have it, I think I just saw they had Prognathodes marcellae and Bodianus speciosus for sale the other day (they occur in the same areas as H. africanus, so probably exported by the same collectors).
Luiz Rocha
Salty Dog
I was the one who found it... Had my camera but decided to show it to the others and have it collected first just in case as it was a new record, so no nice picture 
only this:
But it is exported often from Brazil...
only this:
But it is exported often from Brazil...
rmougey
Chair, MACNA 2014
To myerst2 point, that's why it would be great to have the real name of the critter (Latin name) on the DD alert e-mails. It would be a simple change and would help when I'm trying to figure out which item I want by common name before the rest of you swoop in and get it 30 seconds after the site updates! 
Great pictures Luiz.... I'm enjoying the threads to which you contribute, and it makes me want to trade in my UW video for a still camera again.
Now.... just one more Marcelle butterfly please Kevin.......
-Rob
Great pictures Luiz.... I'm enjoying the threads to which you contribute, and it makes me want to trade in my UW video for a still camera again.
Now.... just one more Marcelle butterfly please Kevin.......
-Rob
Luiz Rocha
Salty Dog
It's a Holocanthus africanus juvenile:
It's very small and almost has the adult colors...
Luiz Rocha
Salty Dog
Damn, can't find it, is it already sold? If so, how much was it? They also have a Coris obtained from the same area, Coris atlantica:
Those fish came either from Sao Tome or from Cape Verde.
Those fish came either from Sao Tome or from Cape Verde.
tanglovers
New member
Was very cheap - $200!!
joetbs
Zanza Zanza Zanzibar
I was the one who found it... Had my camera but decided to show it to the others and have it collected first just in case as it was a new record, so no nice picture
But it is exported often from Brazil...
where were those little Blennodesmus things living? did you dive only in Principe & Sao Tome or around the mainland also?
Luiz Rocha
Salty Dog
Only in Sao Tome, we got them in very exposed rocky areas, around 80 feet deep on the ocean side of Sao Tome.
melanotaenia
New member
The scientific name whining has to stop. Anyone with any knowledge of the industry would know the fish being offered by dd is the one pictured in this thread.
Luiz Rocha
Salty Dog
With that I have to disagree. They have another fish listed in there, one that probably came from the same location:
The common name that they give for it is Booberry Hogfish. The "official", and only common name I ever heard for the fish above is Blackbar Hogfish. Nobody (even those with knowledge of the industry) would guess that a Booberry Hogfish was Bodianus speciosus. The only (relatively) stable species nomenclature is the Linnean scientific nomenclature, simple as that. If you are in a field where you want to know exactly what you are buying (or studying), scientific names should be always used.
rmougey
Chair, MACNA 2014
I beg to differ..... and reserve the right to still whine. Anyone around this industry long enough knows that standardization on common names has yet to happen, and that they vary over time and by region.
So..... why not just use both when marketing a fish? Sure would make life a lot easier.
I recently observed the following critters being offered on stock lists:
1) Black Vagabond Butterfly
2) IO Vagabond Butterfly
3) Vagabond Butterfly
So... are they Chaetodon vagabundus or Chaetodon decussatus.
You would suspect that 1 & 2 are C. decussatus and 3 is C. vagabundus. But you would be wrong. All three were vagabundus.
-Rob
DFS
.Registered Member
Rob and Luiz,
I am all up for standardization of common names but we all know that this is not the case with reef fishes as they can vary by taxonomists, author, and even by different cultures in different parts of the world. To the best of my knowledge there is no "official" common name posted in any scientific literature but rather one valid scientific name.
Another good example is in the thread titled "Can We play Again?? Fish ID Game???". When answering Tim's post where he guessed what type of wrasse was pictured, what name do we give the fish and where is its official name published and who gave the fish any "official" common name? This fish has one true recognized name which is Halichoeres richmondi- Fowler & Bean, 1928
Unfortunately common names can vary far too much even with the experts that I have the utmost respect for. In regards to the “official” common name of Halichoeres richmondi, should we all agree with?
1) The famed author Helmut Debelius who refers to this fish as Richmond's Wrasse (Debelius H. 2001. Asia Pacific Reef Guide. IKAN Unterwasserarchiv, Frankfurt, Germany. Pp. 178).
2) Or should we always reference the famed Australian taxonomist Rudie Kuiter who calls this species the Chain-lined Wrasse (Kuiter R.H. 2002. Fairy & Rainbow Wrasse and their relatives. T.M.C. Pubs., Chorleywood, UK. Pp. 122).
3) Or we can always reference the two icons in fish taxonomy Roger Steene and Gerald R. Allen who call this fish the Tailspot Wrasse (Allen, G. R., R. Steene, P. Humann and N. DeLoach. 2003. Reef Fish Identification. Tropical Pacific. New World Pubs., Jacksonville, FL. Pp. 38.
Common names and their variation as well as scientific names can be used in conjunction with each other to verify the exact species we are referring to as that seems to be the most practical use for all enthusiasts regardless of their knowledge base and expertise. Just my 2 cents.
Rob- we have a few more Prognathodes marcellae so keep an eye out next week.
Luiz- My supplier for West African fishes, who by today’s standards should have been an Ichthyologist himself, uses the name Booberry Hogfish for Bodianus speciosus.
Regards,
I am all up for standardization of common names but we all know that this is not the case with reef fishes as they can vary by taxonomists, author, and even by different cultures in different parts of the world. To the best of my knowledge there is no "official" common name posted in any scientific literature but rather one valid scientific name.
Another good example is in the thread titled "Can We play Again?? Fish ID Game???". When answering Tim's post where he guessed what type of wrasse was pictured, what name do we give the fish and where is its official name published and who gave the fish any "official" common name? This fish has one true recognized name which is Halichoeres richmondi- Fowler & Bean, 1928
Unfortunately common names can vary far too much even with the experts that I have the utmost respect for. In regards to the “official” common name of Halichoeres richmondi, should we all agree with?
1) The famed author Helmut Debelius who refers to this fish as Richmond's Wrasse (Debelius H. 2001. Asia Pacific Reef Guide. IKAN Unterwasserarchiv, Frankfurt, Germany. Pp. 178).
2) Or should we always reference the famed Australian taxonomist Rudie Kuiter who calls this species the Chain-lined Wrasse (Kuiter R.H. 2002. Fairy & Rainbow Wrasse and their relatives. T.M.C. Pubs., Chorleywood, UK. Pp. 122).
3) Or we can always reference the two icons in fish taxonomy Roger Steene and Gerald R. Allen who call this fish the Tailspot Wrasse (Allen, G. R., R. Steene, P. Humann and N. DeLoach. 2003. Reef Fish Identification. Tropical Pacific. New World Pubs., Jacksonville, FL. Pp. 38.
Common names and their variation as well as scientific names can be used in conjunction with each other to verify the exact species we are referring to as that seems to be the most practical use for all enthusiasts regardless of their knowledge base and expertise. Just my 2 cents.
Rob- we have a few more Prognathodes marcellae so keep an eye out next week.
Luiz- My supplier for West African fishes, who by today’s standards should have been an Ichthyologist himself, uses the name Booberry Hogfish for Bodianus speciosus.
Regards,
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