African Flameback angelfish (dwarf angel) becoming aggressive: tank too small?

[Newreeflady]

Is this pretty common, then? This fish was fine with just a clownfish pair in a 20g, but when moved to a 56g, every time a new fish is added this fish is pretty angry about it (with the exception of the Toby puffer that was added, which he has not messed with at all.)

Also, this fish is quite the swimmer, actually, now that he's in the 56g. There are tons of caves that he swims in and out of all day long, and he's fast, very fast. It's an awesome fish, but I'm just not sure if this is just his attitude now that he's full grown, or if it is because this tank is ultimately too small for him. This fish is full grown at 3", but has the personality of a larger fish, imo.

Opinions welcome. Thanks!
Angela

 

[tcmfish]

Pretty common. Depends on the fish being added.

 

[reppo13]

Agreed if you give them room they will take it and make it theirs and become quite the little powerhouse if you will.

 

[Idle Moor]

He sounds a little bit like my lemonpeel. Since his last growth spurt he's become very aggressive and is constantly jetting round the 135 gal tank. He's the first up in the morning and the last to bed at night. His constant, almost frantic motion is far from enjoyable to watch and his aggressiveness against newer, smaller fish, as well as always challenging the larger fish he has been living with for a year is unacceptable. I'm guessing the change in behavior may have been a result of reaching sexual maturity and needing to establish a territory, or of simply converting to a male due to isolation from others of his species. I've trapped him out and he will spend a month or two in the sump. After that I don't know. Sorry no help, but it may not necessarily be the size of the tank. I'd had plans to get a mate for this fish, but I don't think that would help the situation.

 

[murdoch LFC]

Is this pretty common, then? This fish was fine with just a clownfish pair in a 20g, but when moved to a 56g, every time a new fish is added this fish is pretty angry about it (with the exception of the Toby puffer that was added, which he has not messed with at all.)

Also, this fish is quite the swimmer, actually, now that he's in the 56g. There are tons of caves that he swims in and out of all day long, and he's fast, very fast. It's an awesome fish, but I'm just not sure if this is just his attitude now that he's full grown, or if it is because this tank is ultimately too small for him. This fish is full grown at 3", but has the personality of a larger fish, imo.

Opinions welcome. Thanks!
Angela

I have one of these to and he is exactly the same as your description,Mine is only 2" but is an aggressive little b*****d recently got a larger flame angel who has put him in his place abit
john

 

[Newreeflady]

Yeah, this guy is definitely limiting my stocking options. I am wondering if it would help to put any new fish in a breeder basket in the tank to let him get used to them prior to release. Catching this fish is pretty much not an option as it is lightening fast, and deathly afraid of the net. When I moved him to his new tank I was forced to remove all of the rock from the tank to get him, and when I had him he jumped, little punk.

I had been considering a basslet, firefish or fathead anthias, but I am probably not going to be successful with these tame fish as additions... maybe the basslet, but it's a $150 fish so I don't really want to risk it. :/ I really want some kind of pink fish, and honestly I don't want a frantic swimmer since the angelfish has filled that niche. Not sure what else to consider... I'm lucky that he stopped picking on the PJ cardinal that I added. The cardinal hid behind the overflow for 4-5 days, and the angel would go back there to attack it, but finally, I think given how non-threatening the tiny PJ was, the angelfish decided to let him go.

I recently added a medium sized clownfish, but ended up removing him/her due to problems pairing with my larger clown. In the meantime, the angel was really attacking that fish. When I added a smaller clown (also didn't work out) the angel was less aggressive. So, maybe it is only contending with fish that it feels threatened by. ??

I'm not sure I want to keep this fish, but I'm not sure I could catch it if I tried. It's really pretty, though, so tough call. I had considered going in a less active direction with stocking, but that would clearly call for removal of this fish.

Thx!
-A

 

[Idle Moor]

See my thread about the lemonpeel for a simple trap that is working well for me. Aggressive but dumb is the name of the thread.

 

[Newreeflady]

Thanks, good to know there are options... I'm still undecided on what to do. Overall, this is a gorgeous fish, just a handful. Glad to know it isn't the tank size, now I'll have to explore fish options.


-A

 

[Sheol]

Pretty typical for the entire argi sub-genus of Dwarf Angels. They are very aggressive. My Cherub (Centropyge argi) had a habit of killing new fish, except for bottom dwellers. That slight damsel like appearence carries over into their behavior. Do you have a QT? Maybe you could exile the Flameback to it while a new fish gets established.. Just a thought..

Matthew

 

[treylane]

+1 for the temporary exile. Worked wonders for me with a scopas tang that was getting a little too uppity.

 

[jaredlee]

I have experienced 2 cases where pygmy angels became more aggressive when introduced to larger tanks, particularly ones with extensive live rock. Which made for two headaches: 1. meaner fish 2. much more difficult to remove from tank.
I suspect that these fish have been placed into an environment that they really like and are therefore more motivated to defend it. In the ocean, encroaching fish would get the message and swim away. However, in the tank, newcomers unfortunately don't have that option.

 

[Newreeflady]

I have experienced 2 cases where pygmy angels became more aggressive when introduced to larger tanks, particularly ones with extensive live rock. Which made for two headaches: 1. meaner fish 2. much more difficult to remove from tank.
I suspect that these fish have been placed into an environment that they really like and are therefore more motivated to defend it. In the ocean, encroaching fish would get the message and swim away. However, in the tank, newcomers unfortunately don't have that option.

I think you're right! When I put this fish in this tank, it looked happy. I know, fish can't smile, but if it could have I am betting it would have. I have a lovely many crevice and cave structure and this fish uses it, like I said. He swims much more and the behavior is very much a fish that loves what he does (swims and picks at rocks all day).

I have decided to keep this fish. It is territorial, yes. But so are paired ocellaris clowns, which I will soon again have. No one messes with the little toby puffer, seems that fish know they are poisonous. And, somehow, he has already accepted the PJ cardinal (but if that changes I'll pull the PJ out.) I am thinking of adding another semi-aggressive fish as my final fish (wrasse). As long as the fish all see eye-to-eye I'm good I guess.

Thanks guys, it's good to know that this is pretty normal behavior even thought it is sorta bizarre being more aggressive in the larger tank.

Best,
-A

 

[Newreeflady]

I have experienced 2 cases where pygmy angels became more aggressive when introduced to larger tanks, particularly ones with extensive live rock. Which made for two headaches: 1. meaner fish 2. much more difficult to remove from tank.
I suspect that these fish have been placed into an environment that they really like and are therefore more motivated to defend it. In the ocean, encroaching fish would get the message and swim away. However, in the tank, newcomers unfortunately don't have that option.

I think you're right! When I put this fish in this tank, it looked happy. I know, fish can't smile, but if it could have I am betting it would have. I have a lovely many crevice and cave structure and this fish uses it, like I said. He swims much more and the behavior is very much a fish that loves what he does (swims and picks at rocks all day).

I have decided to keep this fish. It is territorial, yes. But so are paired ocellaris clowns, which I will soon again have. No one messes with the little toby puffer, seems that fish know they are poisonous. And, somehow, he has already accepted the PJ cardinal (but if that changes I'll pull the PJ out.) I am thinking of adding another semi-aggressive fish as my final fish (wrasse). As long as the fish all see eye-to-eye I'm good I guess.

Thanks guys, it's good to know that this is pretty normal behavior even thought it is sorta bizarre being more aggressive in the larger tank.

Cheers
-A

 

[jjmcat]

I bought one from a friend who was moving out of state.Very pretty fish but way to aggressive. Within 48 hours of being in the tank he killed 3 chromis and one of my black cardinal fish.Would love to get another female cardinal but not until I can get this little bugger out.I tried to give him away to whoever could catch him.Did I mention he very fast lol.

 

[Trichome]

It sound like this would be a good fish to put in your tank last. That way all your other fish are able to get their own territory first. Also it would be a good idea to get the youngest smallest one you can. By adding it last that way it will be less likely to bully the other fish.

 

[Newreeflady]

OK, I gotta catch this fish. Too aggressive for a community. I am getting an expensive fish (Laboutei wrasse) and don't want to risk it.

He lives in a rock at night and when scared. If I try to catch him I am certain he will go there. I am thinking to have my buddy poke a teflon stick in one hole while I wait with a net on the other side. ... thoughts?

 

[jaredlee]

I had to say it, but you might need to remove most of the rock from the tank, so the flame angle has nothing to hide under. Good luck.

And I have seen many pygmies become the aggressors even when they are introduced last.

 

[Newreeflady]

Half of rock removed. Catching him took approx 30 minutes after I finally removed the rock. I had to stick things in the holes in his rock to block entry. Fast fast fast fish. He is now in a tupperware bin with live rock and tank water. I will be taking up to the lfs this weekend.

Clown was introduced before this fish and he still picked on him. This fish needs to live in an aggressive tank. It was fine as a baby, but got meaner when mature.

-A

 

[jaredlee]

Good for you

Half of rock removed. Catching him took approx 30 minutes after I finally removed the rock. I had to stick things in the holes in his rock to block entry. Fast fast fast fish. He is now in a tupperware bin with live rock and tank water. I will be taking up to the lfs this weekend.

Clown was introduced before this fish and he still picked on him. This fish needs to live in an aggressive tank. It was fine as a baby, but got meaner when mature.

-A