algae and pale corals, help !!

[fishflorist]

Hi everyone, . My tank have been in problem for quite a long time. I'll first introduce my system, then I'll post some pictures.

My English is not good , this kind of thread will be hard for me , please try to understand what I am saying..

The tank established in MAR 2011,

Size: 150*80*65 cm water lever at 58cm , about 200 Gallons
Light: Lumatec Dimable Ballast + 250W 14000K Icecap MH 7.5hours/day
Icecap blue *3 + ATI white *1 54w T5HO 12hours/day
Stream: Tunze 6105 * 4 controled by 7096
Sensen (made in China , small one, for the bottom)
Circle Pump: Hagen 9000L * 1
Skimmer: BK supermarine 250 int
Other filteration:
1 zeolite reactor running about 2L zeolite (BW before, BW + Zeovit now)
1 fluidize reactor running PO4*4 45minutes/day
1 bag 125ml Purigen in sump
1 bag 200ml GAC in sump
Maintainance:
first 7 month, MB7 as a bacteria source 6-8 drops/day, Biodigest 1vial/month , vodka 1-2ml/day
now I use vinegar (10%) 15ml/day, vodka 0-1ml/day, MB7 several drops/week, Biodigest 1vial/month.

I use some zeo stuff, like Sponge Power ; CV and Xtra started 3 month ago

coral feed : coral frenzy, reef chili, reef pearls , mix with some vitamarin-M , amino acid, maybe 1-2 times / week

Kent Lugol's 3 drops / week

Ca 400-450 salifert
Mg 1280-1400 salifert
KH 7-8 hanna
Potassium unknow
PO4: 0-0.01 hanna
NO3: never see any color , use salifert. so I quit testing it sinse 2nd month

I do water change 18L (2.4%) every 2 days since last month, before that I do 80L (10%) water change every 2 weeks

I use reefcrystal salt mix. RO water with no DI unit, tds below 5 (tap water is 70-100)


All right, then I'd like to introduce the problems I am having:

1, pale color. almost every coral in my tank get paler and paler . This is the most concerning thing to me.
2, most of the corals have no good polyp extention
3, first 7 month I have no algae problems, but since I one used zeobak about 10 drops(never used it again), algae comes out, see pictures below.

algae on the rear

algae on the rear

algae on the rock

algae on the rock

algae on the bottom

 

[fishflorist]

pics of some of my unhealthy corals.
more than 15 pieces died last 45 days.

this one had green tissue

this one had blue tips and green-yellow or that kind of color tissue

this one had purple tips, and have long polyp extention, it is said to be an easy one

this one had much more fluorescene green, and longer polyp

this is my favorate one, had blue tips. the bottom of it died 3 month ago , but finally stopped dieing, thank God.
This one is from Saipan Island, kind of smuggled.
I swim to 500m far away from the coast and dive with almost no equipment, and get this smal frag. put it in a water bottle and took back with my luggage. is that seriously illegal ?

this one used to be very green, but now is paler. but , not the worst one.

this one had green tissue and blue tips

this green nest is a frag from my friend, his is very strong looking, have very thich branch; mine is very thin.

this is a typical thin and pale coral in my tank(sorry I can not picture it more clearly because of its position), almost no color, and extremely thin.
it is a very common species but I dont know it's English name, we call it "fish scale" in China, very common, which should be thick and have extremely long polyp.

 

[Logzor]

In my opinion you're starving your tank and putting down too much light. Cut the T5 time in half and pull the GFO and Purigen.

Those white ATI bulbs always cause my SPS to go pale.

I would also cut out the vinegar. That could be causing your algae, vinegar is a carbon source.

It seems all the additives you're dosing are doing more harm than good. Cut out everything except for dosing to keep your parameters in check (calcium/mag/alk).

How are you testing your salinity?

 

[fishflorist]

In my opinion you're starving your tank and putting down too much light. Cut the T5 time in half and pull the GFO and Purigen.

Those white ATI bulbs always cause my SPS to go pale.

I would also cut out the vinegar. That could be causing your algae, vinegar is a carbon source.

It seems all the additives you're dosing are doing more harm than good. Cut out everything except for dosing to keep your parameters in check (calcium/mag/alk).

How are you testing your salinity?

Thank you Logzor ! I forgot to mention, I use 4 T5HO as supplement only since last week, I use 2 blue T5HO before.

carbon source should not be a problem because I started it very early in this tank, with no algae problem. I am thinking about that zeobak I once added.

salinity is really a big problem for me. I use a refractometer before, and I use RO water to calibrate it. I bought a pinpoint salinity monitor in November, and calibrated it properly , use pinpoint calibration fluid. and find these 2 things gives very different reading: refractometer at 1.0265-1.027, but pinpoint at about 1.0235-1.024 (49ms). Then I calibrated my refractometer to 1.026 by using pinpoint calibration fluid, then it reads my tank water at about 1.0245. After that, I post a thread to discuss this, and most people say pinpoint is good , but I still have doubt . So I slowly raise my salinity according to pinpoint reading, now it is 50.6-50.8, I dare not to raise it anymore, because I still feel that calibration of the pinpoint may have problems, under low temperature (5 C degree).
SO NOW, I AM NOT SURE ABOUT MY REALLY SALINITY ACTUALLY.:uhoh2:

 

[jbanks]

I agree that your corals look to be starving. I do not use ZEO products. However, I do use Vodka and Vinegar in my tank and they are not the problem. The amount your dosing could be if you are not feeding the tank enough. As a carbon source, vinegar will not cause algae growth. It will in fact help to export phosphates via bacterial consumption and skimming. However, it will feed things like cyano, which again is a bacteria and not an algae. Looking at your rocks, I see some indicatication that you may be dosing too much vodka/vinegar and probally need to lower your dosage. In order for carbon dosing to work the way you need it to, you have to add enough nutrients to the system. The most natural way to do this is naturally through more fish and multiple daily feedings.... I would also remove the GFO because it is not needed when dosing vodka, vinegar or another carbon source and can cause more harm then good. I also stopped adding aminos to the tank. Over time, your colors will begin to deepen and you will notice better polyp extension. Your system simply needs more nutrients. More fish and feedings can do that for you.. I totally agree with LOGZOR in that you are adding way too much to your tank. You don't have enough waste in the tank to be processed and this is why your corals appear to be starving....

Here's what I would do...

Now that your tank is almost 1 year old and has a solid bactia foudation, dose (MB7 & Biodigest) after weekly water changes only.

Stick to weekly water changes.. Every the water changes every other day is unncessary.

Stop dosing aminos, xtra and other additives. Use these things only to tweek your system once you get it to where you want.

Remove GFO from system- you don't need it when carbon dosing and in this case it will do more harm then good..

Continuue running carbon... Purigen is optional

Add more fish and feed small portions throughout the day

I would limit your light schedule to 9 total hours...

Keep on top of changing your Zeolites on a schedule....

It's my humble opinion that doing these things will really help your system turn around in a few months..

Best of luck to you!

 

[jbanks]

Also.... SPS like the salinity to be on the higher side... 1.026 - 1.028. I read this in a study on natural reef environments. As long as you are in that range, just strive for a consistent reading. I used Reef Crystals Salt in my tank as well and I had a very hard time controling my Alkalinity between 7 and 8.5 dhk... Keep a close eye on ALK in your tank due the requirements of Carbon dosing..

 

[GPB]

Does anyone else think this Algae looks like Dinos. It looks awfull slimy with bubbles in it to me.

 

[fishflorist]

]Jbanks:

Thank you so much for your reply.

I never thought about add more fish could help before, this looks very reasonable. But why add fish is better than add nutrient like amino acid which is believed can be directly used by corals ? And I do feed the coral food like Reef Chili which I feel it's like fish waste or fish feed.
Add fish is not very easy, my tank lost 7 fished in 2 weeks bach in Nov, almost same time with the algae come out. Now I have only 3 tangs, and I plan to add fish when temperature go higher. So in this case, will just add more solid coral feed like Coral Frenzy and Reef Chili have the same effect with adding fish and feed more fish food ?

As for the 2day water change. I just read Randy Holmes-Farly's artical and found out that this kind of water change have similar effect with large/less frequent water change. more than 80% efficiency, I found 80L water change is quite hard for me , so I switched to every 2 day a change, use a RC salt bucket, easier for me. And a better reason for doing water change this way is, I found RC salt have very high Ca Mg and KH, at least it is higher than what I want to maintain, so if I do larger batch of water change , it may have some fluctuate on parameters.

 

[Finland]

Does anyone else think this Algae looks like Dinos. It looks awfull slimy with bubbles in it to me.

That was my first thought when I saw the pics. I would do a search on dinoflagellates to see if that is what you have.

 

[msp307]

I had the same problem dude and I got new test kits and my nitrates were at 0.25 and phosphates at 0.00 my corals were starved. I fed my fish more cut back on zeo flow and only using basic 4 and everything is coming back slowly.

 

[jbanks]

You're welcome... Adding fish is one of the best and most natural ways to increase the bacteria population in your tank... Fish waste is great coral food and it's a lot less expensive to feed your fish, then to buy a bunch of different foods for your coral and other expensive concoctions like amino acids. After using Aminos a few times, I started getting diatom algae blooms. So, I stopped. With fish, just add them slowly so that the bacteria has a chance to catch up and be able to handle the additional waste.

There is a saying that really applies to your situation...... "Less is more".

When you stop some of the things that you are doing, you will observe the conditions in your tank getting better and you will not have to rely on additives to do it...

I haven't read Randy's article yet, but he's a super smart guy! I'm sure his advice is sound... With my schedule, it would be very difficult for me to do small water changes every two days. Good luck with everything... Do your water changes and keep your ALK as stable as possible and your reef will flourish!

 

[msp307]

Hey Jbanks you helped me dial in my geo 612 with your excellent posts. Thanks

 

[jbanks]

You're very welcome!

 

[barjam]

How could it be low nutrients when his tank is packed with algae?

Also many people run GFO with a carbon slice because often times carbon sources alone cannot bring phosphates low enough.

 

[jbanks]

Judging by his readings... his po4 is very low. I'm also not convinced that what's pictured is algae... When too much carbon source is used, a similar looking bacteria substance forms on rocks and other surfaces. As for using GFO along with carbon dosing... its really unnecessary and not recommended because your reef needs some po4.. Carbon dosing requires patience and the time it will take for nitrate and phosphate to go down vary from tank to tank. I can tell you from my experience that po4 took much longer to go down than No3, but it eventually did. You have to give the process time.. That's the only way it will work properly. I am in no way claiming to be an expert. I only speak from my experience and the experience of friends in the hobby with successful SPS reefs in an attempt to help.

 

[pusanpa]

How could it be low nutrients when his tank is packed with algae?

Also many people run GFO with a carbon slice because often times carbon sources alone cannot bring phosphates low enough.

Agreed.

 

[fishflorist]

Thanks again Jbank.

I tend to consider the algae on the rock is actually not algae but some bacteria film, and I think that is caused by the Zeobak once I add, and oh I forgot to mention that I use only Vodka in the first 7 or 8 months but I switched to vinegar+vodka after that. I suppose that is also one reason . (I switch to vinegar because I found most people in Chemistry Forum use it , like Randy and TMZ, they are all keeping great tanks)

But what is confusing me is that the algae on the rear , they looks great, and they looks like is algae , so I am confusing about this, coral looks ungry but algae looks great .....

 

[fishflorist]

but one thing for sure is that I will cut down these Zeo things , and go the " less is more " route, that is also I have heard from some good reef keepers .

 

[msp307]

It bacteria slime I have it too algea is solid you can grab it this stuff just disintegrates when you try too

 

[aqua80]

at least your yellows are great !
and that is a sign of low nutrients too...