algae help please

[mikesin]

Hi all, I need an expert with algae control, specifically hair algae and red slime.
I'm making a last ditch effort to ask the club for help before I pull the plug on our 75G. I have only been in the hobby for 5 years and just can't beat algae. I had a very successful 5000G koi pond for 10 yrs, with all kinds of outside elements playing Havoc with the water, yet there was always a solution.
So if your an expert or know of one would you please send them my way?

A quick run down - This time the tank started to show signs of hair algae in early summer and now red slime has completely covered all of the hair algae. strange thing is the coral themselves are algae free. currently the algae is on just about every surface.

So some say your feeding too much. I feed 4 types of frozen food and a pinch of pellets daily. The frozen food is cut into 1/8. so that equals 1/2 cube of frozen food that is set on a paper plate to melt, then a paper towel is used to remove the fluids, a few drops of selcon is added. Out of this only 1/2 is fed.

Some say its a nitrAte or Phosphate issue. I have never had a positive nitrAte or Phosphate reading, the tests read zero.
some say the algae is absorbing the phosphate and that is why it is zero. The tank reads zero before I feed, 15 mins after I feed, 1 hour after I feed, 3 hours after I feed. Not believing this I purchased a hana phosphate checker and the results are the same so I call BS to that theory.
I do run phosban and carbon in a canister filter that is cleaned every week. carbon is replace weekly and phosban is replaced monthly.
I have always run an RO/DI filter for any water going into the system. by the way the tap water reads .06 and the RO/DI reads zero phosphate.
I dose 65cc's of 2 part per 24 hrs for alk and cal levels which are 9dkh, and 460.
Also dose 1 gallon of kalk water in 24 hrs as make up water.
There are 2 - 10 gallon refugiums connected to the 30G basement sump. One housed cheato which, over the last month has died.
Some say lighting is the problem, I have a tek T5 that I mod with cooling and the bulbs are changed out every December.

I am sure I missed a few things but that is a quick overview of the system.

Thanks...

 

[Raceimage]

Ditto! I have been combating a similar problem for 5 years; but, I may have found a solution today. I have 2 urchins, 3 tangs, emerald crabs, snails, and purchased a sea hare today to try to control the algae and red slime. I also run GFO, bio pellets, and have cheato in my sump. I think my problem is lack of flow. I put a Maxi-jet powerhead with a Sure Flow kit in tonight and the red slime was gone immediately, my SPS corals opened up, and some of the hair algae blew off the rocks. I don't like the unit I purchased because it won't stay in the position that I put it in; but I definitely will run something for supplemental circulation. I didn't like the look of the Korella pumps that most people use, so I tried to set my tank up in a manner that I would not need them. I thought a sea swirl in addition to the built in returns and an oversized return pump would be sufficient flow for my 120 gal. I would rather have unnatural pumps in my tank than all of the algae.

 

[Enyo]

You have sand? One of my tanks was run without a skimmer for a year and little water changes. It was totally out of wack. Removed all the sand, got a skimmer, and detailed the sump and now it's cleaner than ever.

I would say do some large water changes. My main tank's params would slowly rise with 10% weekly water changes to the point of algae and snot. Did two 50% water changes and started doing 15-20% a week and now its fine as well.

 

[mikesin]

Raceimage - I have a maxi 1200 for surface water disturbance and got tired of the suction cups ended up getting the magnetic holder, not sure if it will work with the mod though. There are 2 korella 3's in the display and the algae is growing on both

Enyo - I do 20% water changes every 2 weeks, There is sand in thr DT as well as one of the refugium.

I guess what it is coming down to is this is a hobby, and after sooo long it is turning into work and not so enjoyable.......

Thanks for the replies.

 

[jakesalk]

Battling hair alge is a project. The best way it to physically remove it scrub it off your rocks. Make sure your cuc is worki g pull this snails and urchins off the glass and put them in problem spots. Red slime remover works decent by make sure you have an air stone or something along those lines in your sump. With that much food you should definitely run phosphate remover the npx bio beads have worked the best for me

 

[Mark 75g]

I do water changes weekly- usually 20 to 30 %
I have a 175g and have 2-mp40's 2-koralia 1400 evo and 2- mag 9.5 for returns.

Use red slime remover then Start doing weekly water changes and add more flow.

 

[krshlln300]

I too have problems with Hair algae but I got a lawnmower blenny and he is keeping it all in check really well!

 

[bmiller1234]

So are you running a skimmer or not?

Your tests will not show nit or phos since algae is absorbing it.

You have a surplus of dissolving organically that are feeding algae. It's always a pain but it's a very simple solution. Remove it's food source. Thats the problem. Your chaeto died cause you removed its food source.

How many fish do you have? You can cut your feeding way back and reduce your light cycle. What type of bulbs do you run? If your running low k that will fuel algae.

A complete system description with livestock and equipment will help to determine best actions.

 

[mikesin]

Red slime remover - Ive used it before and have held off this time. it almost appears to be killing the hair algae. I also worry about red slime remover killing the pods in the tank as I have a mandarin. I will use it if the algae starts to affect the corals.

tanks stats ph 8.0-8.2, ammonia 0, nitrItes 0, nitrAtes 0, sal 1.025, dkh 9, cal 460, mag 1450, phosphate 0, silica 0, temp 78.5 to 79*.
AGA 75G reef, 30G basement sump, total LR in the display and refugium = 125 lbs, mag 9.5 return ASM G-1X, I skim wet, 10 G refugium that housed cheato light cycle opposite as display, 10 G refugium sand bed and LR for pods, no predators in this refugium, dose 1 G of kalk water per day as make up water, as well as 65cc of 2 part. maxi 1200 running the refugium from the sump, 1 maxi 1200 in the display for surface water agitation, 2 - #3 koralia's in the display, rena xp4 running that houses carbon and phosban, spray bar return for surface water agitation, tek t-5 (6X54) modded for active cooling, 1 fuji purple, 1 midday, 2 pure atinic's,
2 aqua blue, Lights run 9hrs per day (bulbs changed every 12 months), super luft air pump 3.9psi plumbed for outside air, 2 lines to the top of the DT to help air exchange, 1 to the skimmer and 1 airstone in the sump. majority of the above is controlled via ACIII. there are 10 fish, blue legged hermits (which iam removing) misc. cerith, nassarius and astera snails.

I don't buy into the theory that tests are useless, phosphate & nitrAthas must be present and readable before they can be used. The other day I tested every hour before feeding and after and everytime the hana checker read 0.00.

I feed 4 servings of what is on the knife daily -

Does that look like too much food to the all of you?


To be clear I am not talking about localized algea - it is literal on ever piece of rock and equipment and glass of the DT.

I don't believe it is flow because the algae is flourishing on my power heads as well as all of the rocks that the powerheads are pointing to.

all that black/dark purple is the slime which is covering the hair algae (yes it is that bad). its almost as the slime algae is using the nutrients of the hair algae - killing it. I can control red slime with the remover and that is one of the reasons why I havent used red slime remover as of yet.

Thanks all for the help, I appreciate it and please don't take offense as I am soooo frustrated, I feel that I have tried it all in 5yrs.

I am really leaning to lighting, specifically, sunlight. Do any of you have your display near windows? are your displays in the basement?
This display is in our living room that has 2 windows, one facing north and the other west, we keep the blinds down and curtains closed however the room is really not "dark"..

 

[Actnatural]

strip it down and go barebottom as a last ditch effort - i cant even begin to explain how much poopoo is in your sandbed and under your rocks

im assuming you have crabs and snails? I havn't seen hair algae forever.

Cyano was starting to take over my sandbed and rock and I decided to go barebottom - I can honestly say I do not see cyano enough to point it out anymore (coincidence I think not) . I am still fighting all the poop that was left behind from the sand removal.

I just said to my wife earlier "I wonder if they are pooping faster than I can remove it." I honestly think there was just that much poopoo in my sandbed. Now here in a month after doing my poopoo removal routine if i cant get it under control I will then blame it on production beating my removal.

hope this helps you stay in the hobby...

 

[krshlln300]

If it gets to the point of no return I would try 1 of 2 things.
1) if at all possible isolate the corals in 1 section of your tank or let someone foster them, then remove the sand and rock. Scrub the hell out of each rock you have to manually remove the hair algae, keep in mind that while doing this you should be keeping the rock in dirty water from your tank to maintain the good bacteria. Then SLOWLY once each is scrubbed really good, place them back in the tank preferably w/ a barebottom or a slight dusting of sand for aesthetics like no more than 1/8 in. This will minimize the likelyhood of crash or any mini cycles and will get rid of the algae. In addition i would minimize the light in your tank after replacing the rock to prevent algae growth for a day or two just to make sure. ( by this I mean to keep all corals if possible either in a different tank or in one side of the tank during this process and spotlight them while the rock is being semi qt'd.) I have done this in the past and it works very well when there are seemingly no other options. I know it will take some work but hang in there it will be worth it. Also your HA may have out-competed you chaeto causing the chaeto to die. that happened to me.

2.) you can attempt to use the chemical warfare method along with HEAVY water changes to remove any die-off. I also would personally look into a lawnmower blenny as a way to keep it from coming back they do a great job, just be careful as they may nip some corals if no algae is present but in your case I doubt it would need to nip anything for a long time.

 

[Todd_Sails]

Are you running a UV light/filter? Helps kill algae too.
I"m sure you knew that anyways having a KOi pond though, right.
Just trying to throw things out there to help.

 

[bmiller1234]

Hmmm. Well here's my thoughts on a few things. I think you should quit and sell me your corals and clams. Haha just kidding. But seriously a few things from what I read from the info above.

Your probably not going to show phosphates since they are being absorbed by cyano before it gets into water column and any other traces are probably being precipitated out of water by the limewater dosing.

Nitrates aren't being read cause they are being caused by organics that are in the algae. It's being absorbed by the ha and cyano before it makes it into the water column where you test. Kinda like a bucket with a hole in the bottom. You can out the hose in full blast and there's lots of water going somewhere but look in the bucket and it's still empty.

The ha under the cyano looks dead because it's not getting light. If you move the cyano it will green right back up. It's not absorbing the nutrients, it's just blocking a food supply-light.

In the pic of the power head and good bit of your cyano problem is very evident. I would assume its only flowing at about 40-50% due to it needing cleaned. It's also got a layer of cyano which is basically making it a spore spray bottle and why your seeing cyano in direct flow of the power head.

Do you ever turkey baste and blow all the rocks out and off? With the rock stack looks like you could have some pretty bad cryptic areas behind and between rock. That would allow alot of time bomb stuff to accumulate if not blown into water column and skimmed/filtered out.

How deep is your sand bed in display and the one that is in basement? If sand beds are too deep and not done properly they can cause problems. I don't have any first hand knowledge but from reading other horro stories anything between 2-5 inches is a danger zone if not set up and maintained properly. Do you have any sand stirrers snails stars etc?

 

[mikesin]

Thanks for all of the replies and advise - I ended up purchasing dry rock, I don't think I have the patience this time around to fight HA. so once it comes in I'll start the cycle in a separate system. maybe I'll get the new LR in by Xmas as a present. 3 rd times a charm, right?

Sand bed is 1.5" at its deepest, I also read to either go less than 2" or more than 4.

1 other ? looking at the above photo - does that look like alot of food to be feeding? to me its not but to others it may be. I only put in what they eat in 4 -5 mins....

 

[hybridazn]

Hey mike I know u run an rodi, but maybe take some of it to a water testing facility to make sure its getting everything. Tds readings could be at 0 but the filters could be not grabbing all the impurities of the water?



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[mikesin]

Good thought George, I wondered about that a few months ago when the HA was getting a good hold, I replace the membrane even though everything tested properly. Ive been replacing the membrane every year and pre filters about every 3 - 4 months - I have read that well water can be tough on the membrane. I m looking into regenerating the DI as I only get 60 gallons of RO/DI water because of the high carbon dioxide in our water...

 

[implac]

I've started tossing a polyfilter pad into my water change bin to catch any dissolved organics. I was looking for steps to take to battle my own cyano problem; My TDS meter reads 0-2 ppm after the RO membrane, the polyfilter starts to turn tan after a few weeks (20 gallons in a brute trashcan changed every 2 weeks, same polyfilter). Now I'm assuming the color is indicative of organics present and not diatom or algae growth (the lid keeps light out) but I've never tested silicate levels.
As for hair algae I have an abalone that will keep it mowed 1/8" or shorter, red or green.

 

[summitk]

Darkness

Darkness

I don't know if you've tried this, but I had a red slime problem last year, and what worked for me was to replace the filters in my RO/DI unit, and then do a large scale water change (30%) followed by a period of darkness (refugium and main tank) for 3-4 days. When I "woke" up the system, everyone was happy again. I know, all of these systems are different, and we all have different reasons for bad algae, but this is a really simple and cheap thing to try. Oh yeah, it'll be tough on the skimmer, so empty it often.


Summit