Algae Identification and Assitance

[m2434]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11639766#post11639766 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
Doesn't look like red slime to me or me either but a heavy growth of Diatoms

Rare I'd disagree with boomer, I'm not sure what it looks like on you monitor, but on mine, there's no question that's brown cyano. Maybe there are some diatoms mixed in, but notice the stringy stringy sliminess? Never seen that with diatoms, but you do see it with cyano, regardless of the color...

either way, nutrient reduction is the best weapon, but cyano is much more persistent

 

[m2434]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11650222#post11650222 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rpeeples

Within a 1/2 hour of doing the water change you could see the brown stuff begin to form on the sand bed. You could literally sit and watch as this begun to develop. The good news it did not develop to the extent it has over the past month and as of this morning it was holding steady with not additional growth but seemed to be receeding.

The other thing I noticed this morning (and yesterday) was a whitish haze in the water. Not sure if this a bacterial bloom as a result of the water change or if it's the system going through a biological cycle trying to stabilize itself? I will try to take some more pics tonight and post them.

Sounds like a contaminant in your water. I would try a diffrent source and see what happens. The whitish haze could be some percipitation. How long did the water age?

 

[HowardW]

You said you are getting 0 TDS from your RO/DI topoff water, but just to mention that when some DI resin gets exhausted it can release big spurts of silicates and/or phospahtes into the final water.

 

[TomRep]

Kinda looks like the stuff I have been battling since September

tom

 

[Boomer]

Rare I'd disagree with boomer, I'm not sure what it looks like on you monitor, but on mine, there's no question that's brown cyano.

I said it looks like Diatoms and you need a new monitor and glasses You can not ID these without the aid of a microscope. Brown Cyano mats like these are rare accept in thermal environments such as Yellowstone. A black to dark green or red bottom usually means a Cyanobacterial mat. A yellow to orange to brown bottom and usually a sign of diatom mat. Dino's are brownish to tan to golden.

Maybe there are some diatoms mixed in, but notice the stringy stringy sliminess?

They all can get stringy and /or have bubbles. That is not an ID accept in the minds of some like yourself Dino's are especially known for this.

Never seen that with diatoms, but you do see it with cyano, regardless of the color...

Not so at all. Maybe you always mis - ID diatoms and cyano

Maybe there are some diatoms mixed in, but notice the stringy stringy sliminess?

I'm well aware of the stringy appearance . True to a point and often such mats are over-run with diatoms to a much higher density than the cyano itself, thus giving the dark brown color, as seem in his tank.

One way of checking to see if they are Diatoms, that sometime works, is to take some and rub it between you fingers to see if it has a gritty or grain like feeling like sand.

 

[Boomer]

Tom

Hard to tell need a better pic but off-hand those look like Dinoflagellates, basically because of the where they are growing and how they are growing.

 

[TomRep]

Hey Boomer, that could be. I don't want to hijack this thread. Can I start a thread on these in the chem forum without it being moved to another forum? I went through the processes I have taken to try and rid myself of this, but it still hasn't gone away. Any help or suggestions I can get would be great. I started a thread about it in the Reef Discussion forum, but it quickly got burried when everyone claimed it was high PO4 and NO3, but I verified my tank has 0 of both.
tom

 

[rpeeples]

I like the idea of my TDS and possibility that my DI Resin may in fact be releasing silicates. The picture below is my RODI setup and the last two chambers on the left are by DI Resin Chambers, you will notice the second chamber from the left is slightly exhausted but the first from the left is not even tapped. I am going to pick up a silicate test kit after work and see where these buggers are at.

TDS Meter:

I love the discussion thus far. I will take some updated pics tonight and bring them on the thread.

So if i have a sample of this stuff who would be able to tell me with 100% certainty what this is? Are there any companies that could mail a sample and they test it?

Much thanks for all the feedback.

 

[DocJim]

What kind of additives are you putting into your water? I had this exact same problem with the whitish haze when I was using a polygluconate form of calcium (SeaChem Reef Calcium to be exact). It got so bad that it looked like strings of snot sliming my rocks. Someone told me that it could have been a bacterial bloom caused from the gluconate.
To combat the problem I immediately shut my lights off for three days, ran heavy carbon, and did a couple of water changes. It has not completey resolved but remains controlled as long as I keep up with water changes.

 

[rpeeples]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11650927#post11650927 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TomRep
Kinda looks like the stuff I have been battling since September

tom

TomRep: Looking at the back part of the picture this algae looks similar to what I had on my glass however the algae displayed on the rocks doesn't look that similar. Thanks for posting the pics.

I know that I do have some cyano on my rocks that display a deep red hue. Looking at your it looks more on the yellow side. What I have been doing is siphoning this stuff off the rocks about every third day. And the algae on the back glass I actually scrapped and removed yesterday. I am waiting to see if the algea returns to the back wall??

One last note: over the past three days the green film algae on the front and side glass has almost disappeared. After using my magnet to clean this almost three days ago, the green film is minimal if any....I am thinking this is a positive sign that we are headed in the right direction.

 

[rpeeples]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11651377#post11651377 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DocJim
What kind of additives are you putting into your water? I had this exact same problem with the whitish haze when I was using a polygluconate form of calcium (SeaChem Reef Calcium to be exact). It got so bad that it looked like strings of snot sliming my rocks. Someone told me that it could have been a bacterial bloom caused from the gluconate.
To combat the problem I immediately shut my lights off for three days, ran heavy carbon, and did a couple of water changes. It has not completey resolved but remains controlled as long as I keep up with water changes.

Hi DocJim, In order to get my PH up to 8.5 as recommend by Randy I used a slurry of Kalkwasser yesterday and dump this directly into a high flow area of the sump. Other than this addition I have not added anything other that freshly mixed salt. I believe after reading a couple of recent post this white haze could be precipitation of calcium given the addition of the slurry?

 

[HowardW]

If it was me, I wouldn't make any drastic water chemistry changes or do any more water changes, but just scale back on those new MH lamps quite a bit and siphon out that stuff as it grows and see if the problem works itself out in the next couple weeks. You often hear of stuff like this happening when people rearrange their whole tank or switch to all new high PAR MH lamps or change spectrum, and often times the problem works itself out. Just an idea?

 

[rpeeples]

Howard, I agree. At this point I am going to monitor the problem and manage my water parameters. I have cut the MH from 8 to 6 hours and will siphon when warranted. I will also hold off on any water changes unless I need to replenish removed water from siphoning. I am also going to limit feeding, skim a little wet, and not do add anything that will increase nutrient levels substantially.

 

[m2434]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11651058#post11651058 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer

you need a new monitor and glasses ......

That is not an ID accept in the minds of some like yourself

Wow you know me so well :eek2:

I admit, better wording would have been "IMO that looks like cyano". I'm aware a microscope is required get a definitive id.

I get the same thing from time to time, It starts out as a red and starts turning into a brown, stringy mat. I believe it may be brown cyano or cyano covered in diatoms. From what I've seen diatoms tend to start as a golden brown and then get dark brown and bubbly like that. However, at least what I believe to be diatoms (and I could be wrong) never take on that stringy structure and it's more like a dust than a mat.

After doing much research, I was under the impression the slimy, stringy, mats were unlikely diatoms alone. In order to get a mat like that, you would need something and cyano seems like the most likely candidate, Dinos are also a very reasonable guess.

If I'm wrong I certainly appreciate your insight. However, I know colors and contrasts can vary quite a bit from monitor to monitor and I wanted to make sure I was seeing the same thing as you. If so, then I'm curious why I am wrong. I was not trying to insult you, just learn from you. You certainly know more about reefs than I do, but there's no need to be snide

 

[TomRep]

Actually, I was referring to the stuffon the rocks. The stuff on the glass id a think chunk of coraline (s/p) with a thin coating of the stuff on the rocks attached to it.
tom

 

[Boomer]

Tom

Yah, go ahead and start a new thread if you want to.

 

[Boomer]

m

From what I've seen diatoms tend to start as a golden brown and then get dark brown and bubbly like that. However, at least what I believe to be diatoms (and I could be wrong) never take on that stringy structure and it's more like a dust than a mat.

That is usually the case but not always. There is not a single ID for his algae as seen without running some tests. It is a like Valonia for an example, not all green bubble algae is Valonia. I don't think he has Dino's either, as they usually are not on the bottom, where you usually see diatom's and cyano but in high flow areas. Diatoms also really like glass. When diatoms take over a cyano mats that is how they often look, like his pic. Like I said a good ID often is to rub some between your fingers and if gritty or sandy felling they are almost always diatoms. Diatoms do often produce very thick slim mats, they are at times common in tanks and the wild both FW and SW.

I believe it may be brown cyano or cyano covered in diatoms.


That maybe very possible and like I said that is what it is at times and is more of a ditaom issue than a cyano issue.

You certainly know more about reefs than I do, but there's no need to be snide

Go back a re-read your own post. You sounded rather snide to me. However, I was just giving you some teasing comments, that is all they were. I do this to Billybeau and Randy often and you went in the wrong direction on this post.

I was not trying to insult you, just learn from you.

Well then, you must of thought you were being snide to me other wise this comment would not have been made.

 

[m2434]

Thanks Boomer, that clarifies some questions for me. My apologies if I mis-interpreted you before, or sounded snide myself. Sometimes the tone of a comment doesn't come across well in text.

 

[rpeeples]

Glad we got that cleared up

So Boomer.....you think I have some good old fashioned diatoms here? Maybe a little Cyano? Whats your call? They have seemed to improve a little...I don't have a silicate test kit so I can't test for that but I do plan on changing out all my RODI filters. Thanks again guys.

 

[ClayWagner]

That's def. cyanobacteria...without a doubt. There are variations of color to this organism so don't assume that it has to be "red slime" to be cyano. Same characteristic sheet with bubbles trapped (due to the photosynthesis char of the bacteria) that forms on the bed of sand (diatoms have a hard silica wall and are thus very different in appeance and texture, although I'm not entirely aware if they can coincide in the same place but some information I've read in the past suggests that they can in fact be symbiotic organisms so don't go makin' fun of mr. boomer here ). I've had problems with this previously, finally a non-photoperiod of three days and following with a day of t5's only knocked it completely out. Skim wet during this (some also say use carbon but I don't think it has much effect) and the last day a water change (15-30%). I guarantee results and trust me...the corals can take it. If you have a fuge, also turn this light off and if there's light (even dim) in your DT room...cover the tank with a blanket (don't worry about oxygen/CO2 exchange with skimmer on and sump open). I don't feel that you have to "re-cycle" your tank just yet, so don't jump to the most drastic conclusion until you've tried. Also, a quick vac the night you start this treatment to get most of it off the sand bed helps substantiently.