AlgaeFix Marine to control Hair Algae

I've been dosing this stuff for about two weeks now... I haven't noticed any change in my GHA population. I've pulled the stuff out, and it just keeps growing back. I've increased dosing, to every other day in hopes that it will do something... None of my livestock have showed averse reactions....

Just so tired of this stuff....

AlgaeFix does not kill all types of algae. The siphoning algae are tough and if you have this type of algae perhaps using Tech M to increase your mag level 300-400 ppm with no more than 100 ppm increase per day may work. Some hobbyists have reported this works. There have been report of snails dieing and other invertebrates like shrimp when increasing the mag level this much.
 
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Hello HighlandReefer,
Per your expirience with AlgaeFix Marine -
- Is it effective against dinoflagellates?
- I am somewhat concern about this product components, since it calim containing cancer factor... what do you think please?

Dinoflagellates are not on the label for AF. I have no experience with dinos. It could work as well as not. Perhaps the manufacturer never tested for dinos with AF. Perhaps they did and it didn't work. If you decide to try it, please let me know the results. :)

IMHO, the cancer factor for the state of California only is a little excessive and is not a concern. I personally would follow the label without concerns. ;)
 
i have been using the product for a month or so now..

all of my hair algae is gone and the rock looks great..

what i noticed on the sand..in the shaded areas there is almost like a yelllow algae on the sand... kind of strange color and only areas that do not get direct light from the AI fixtures

thoughts???
 
has anyone checked their alk while dosing with AF? I started dosing and it was working on the GHA but all of a sudden I lost 90% of all my inverts.

Checked my water and saw my alk was dangerously low (5) so I stopped dosing and treated my alk issues and now they're back to where they need to be but I'm affraid of starting the AF back up.

Any Thoughts?
 
I tried this product for a few months with no luck... actually made the algae growth worse.... best thing for me was water changes and feeding fish every other week. I will never use a quick fix product again....
 
I tried this on my saltwater tank but it didn't work. However, it's working wonders on my outdoors freshwater koi tank. I followed the direction and also used it together with more carbon. After 2 weeks, the water couldn't be clearer.
 
I started AF about four months ago at the recommended dose every three days. I cleared up all my HA after about two months. I am now just using the maintenance dose once a week.. I have lots of fish and coral in three tanks on the 200 gal system. No losses that I would attribute to AF.
 
Has anyone had trouble with their skimmers overflowing when starting AF ? I put in the reccommended dose for my 220 and 4 hrs later in the middle of the night my atb 840 went nuts and blew the collection cup lid off with clear water and bubbles, i now have the wedgepipe completly open and still it is overflowing continously...
any ideas...???
 
IMHO, the cancer factor for the state of California only is a little excessive and is not a concern. I personally would follow the label without concerns. ;)

Wow, I'm kind of shocked by this thread. It seems that it is being suggested that this chemical is safe, because no immediate negative effects are reported? I wouldn't expect that kind of logic from this group, so maybe I'm missing something? As far as I can tell, this is a very powerful chemical. It seems to me there is good reason to be cautious with it and not assume it is "safe". From the data listed here:
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC34167

It's LC50 is less than 1ppm for 4 out of the 6 freshwater fish tested. I calculate the dose recommended results in slightly over 1ppm, assuming no accumulation. Granted there were no saltwater fish tested and there dosn't seem to be immediate death in saltwater fish, however, given the very high toxicity, it seems unlikely to me that it isn't causing some loss of fitness in marine organisms. Any loss of fitness could result in weakened immune response, loss of fecundity, etc... So, I wouldn't assume lack of immediate negative results means it's "safe".

There is no information about carcinogen effects, however, it is a powerful chemical and there is no evidence that CA is wrong either. It would seem that there is something about the chemical structure, or other hints, that leads them to suspect it is. Who knows maybe your fish will drop dead from cancer in a few years and you'd never have any idea, you'd just think it was old age or some other, completely unrelated illness.

Even if not at least slightly, directly toxic, which seems like a stretch to me, based on the freshwater data, there would likely be indirect negative effects. For example, it's moderately toxic to zooplankton and highly toxic to their food sources. I'd at least say wouldn't expect that to have a "positive" effect on the food web. For example, there is evidence starved corals are more susceptible to bleaching (e.g. Ferrier-Pagès 2010 or Borell and Bischof 2008). That is if there really is no direct effects on the zooxanthellae, which seems reasonable to think, if it did, would also lead to a loss of fitness.

So, I'm surprised you guys are so willing to promote this. What am I missing?
 
m2434,

You're concerns are also noted in this thread I started before this current thread. ;)

Chemical Control of algae?
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1596521


From this thread, a quote from Randy regarding AlgaeFix:

"I would not use Algaefix in a reef tank. It is a potent biocide and can potentially kill other inverts. API specifically says to not use it in the presence of crustaceans,

According to the MSDS, and after a little redjusting for their incorrect namming, Algaefix is 4.5 weight percent of a cationic polymer

Poly[oxy-1,2-ethanediyl(dimethyliminio)-1,2-ethanediyl(dimethyliminio)-1,2-ethanediyl chloride (1:2)]

more commonly known as

Polyquaternium 42

and these other common names:

Armoblen NPX; BL 2142; Bualta; Bubond 60; Bulab 6002; Busan 1507; Busan 77; KA 1700; MBC 115; Polixetonium chloride; Poly[oxyethylene(dimethylamino)ethylene(dimethylamino)ethylene dichloride]; Polyquaternium 42; TB 66; WSCP


For example:

A potential biocide for control of the golden mussel, Limnoperna fortunei. Darrigran, Gustavo A.; Colautti, Dario C.; Maronas, Miriam E. Division Zoologia Invertebrados, Facultad Ciencias Naturales y Museo, La Plata, Argent. Journal of Freshwater Ecology (2007), 22(2), 359-360.

Abstract

We assessed to response of larvae of the golden mussel (Limnoperna fortunei) to different concns. of a quaternary ammonium polymer (Bulab 6002) in order to est. its effectiveness in controlling this invasive mussel. Mussels were collected along the coast of the Rio de la Plata, Argentina, and were tested in two lab. trials. The estd. median lethal concn. for these 24-h exposures were 9.6 mg/L and 4,6 mg/L, indicating that this biocide may be suitable as a control agent for this mussel.



__________________
Randy Holmes-Farley
Club 65535

Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef"

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The label for AlgaeFix Marine states that it is safe for crustaceans, however the freshwater version has cautions as Randy stated above.

That said, as a last resort, I still would recommend the use of AlgaeFix Marine based on its track record when used per the label from this thread. IMHO there are more tank disasters when using antibiotics to control cyano. AlgaeFix will not control all types of algae either. So AF is not a sure fire cure for all hobbyists. :)

Certainly AlgaeFix Marine's active ingredient is used as a biocide at higher concentrations and there is not a lot of room for error. Hence my recommendation to carefully follow the labeled directions.
 
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Ah, okay I gotcha now :thumbsup: Sorry, I didn't read all 1675 replies :)
I've noticed it seems to be gaining popularity lately, especially among newbies, which led me to this thread. I was shocked by my first skim through, but I see what your saying now.

Certainly I think there are cases, such as if corals are starting to get overgrown by turf algae or something, where I might risk it, but still very cautiously. Based on the data though, I'd be concerned about using it liberally, esspecially in less dire situations, where other methods are sufficient.
 
Good points. ;)

From what I have gathered up from the Chemistry Forum over a period of time my normal recommendations for algae control is as follows:

There are a lot of hobbyists in your same position. Reducing your nitrate and phosphate levels to a zero reading will help in getting rid of many type of algae and/or cyanobacterial pests. IME, reducing nitrate and phosphate levels too low can kill or cause problems for many types of soft coral. Running GAC & GFO will all help in reducing the growth of these type of pests. In many cases they will not eradicate the pest even when phosphate and nitrate are extemely low. Vinegar and/or Vodka dosing will help reduce the nitrate and phosphate levels also, but will not necessarily eradicate the pest either.

A common problem is being able to identify your pest to a category correctly: true algae, cyano, dino, bacteria & other assorted pests that look similar. In many cases a micro look at your pest is best to properly ID it to one of these categories.

IMHO, if you are faced with an algal type pest problem, it is best to implement an algae pest control program strategy:


1) Wet skimming with a good quality skimmer. Clean your skimmer cup at least once per week.

2) Reduce your nitrates and phosphates to a zero reading using the hobby grade test kits. See Randy's articles regarding this:

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

3) Proper lighting. I find that the higher wavelength bulbs are less conducive to algae growth. I now run 20,000 K bulbs from using 10,000 K bulbs.

4) Proper day length is a good thing also. I would not run your lights for more than 12 hrs total. Keep in mind that light entering from a window nearby is added to this figure.

5) Running GAC is a good practice in my book. It will help reduce the total dissolved organic carbons in your tank water and this is a food source.

6) Proper 30% per month total water changes will help export the DOC as well as some of the pests in the water column. It will help maintain the micro-nutrients as well.

7) Physical removal of the pest by hand, scrubbing and siphoning is important as well. If the amount of pest in your aquarium is overwhelming, perhaps dealing with one section at a time is a better idea.

8) Proper water circulation in your tank to prevent dead zones. When dealing with cyanobacteria pests increasing the flow where it grows seems to help.

9) Use RODI water for all top-off, salt mixing, additive mixes... etc.

10) Dosing iron may have benefits for macro-algae, but if you are experiencing algae pest problems than I would stop dosing it as it can add to the problem in many cases.

11) If you are dosing other supplements such as vitamins, amino acids, or others that contain a mix of supplements other than the basic alk., calcium and magnesium, I would stop these until you gain control of your pest. This includes many of the store bought products with unknown ingredients. Dosing Vodka or sugar to reduce your nitrates and phosphates would be an exception in my opinion.

12) Proper feeding habits. This can be the number one problem when trying to reduce your nitrate and phosphate levels. Use low phosphate fish foods.

13) IMHO, lighted refugiums may be a problem when trying to deal with an algae type pest problem. They are wonderful when it comes to reducing nitrates and phosphates. However, the light over most refugiums is conducive to the microalgae type pests. If the refugium becomes infested with a microalgae pest, I would clean it throughly of all pests as best as possible, remove the macro and turn off the lights until you gain control of your pest. Re-using the same macroalgae later may serve as a source for re-infestation of your pest.

14) Adding fish and other creatures that will eat your algae pest will help.

15) Running a diatom filter which has been suggested by Boomer, makes a lot of sense to me. It will help remove a lot of organic material in your water column.

16) For some additional thoughts regarding switching an algae based system to a bacterial based system see this thread:
(Using a carbon source with appropriate bacterial dosing may possibly help to push your system to where you want it although this is controversial.)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1781320

17) There are other items that can be added to this list if others care too share and some of the items listed may be disputed.
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If after you have tried all these procedures and you are still loosing the battle, I would recommend that you initiate the use of AlgaeFix Marine based on the reports I have seen in this thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1595003

I hate to see anyone give up on this hobby due to algae type pest problems.
 
Dinoflagellates are not on the label for AF. I have no experience with dinos. It could work as well as not. Perhaps the manufacturer never tested for dinos with AF. Perhaps they did and it didn't work. If you decide to try it, please let me know the results. :)

IMHO, the cancer factor for the state of California only is a little excessive and is not a concern. I personally would follow the label without concerns. ;)

After putting this in our tank water, is their any risk to humans? I.E reaching in the tank getting this on our skin, the bottle references skin contact on the back...I know i am being paranoid, but i don't like putting my hands in the tank without gloves on because of the concentrations of who knows what is in the tank water, however to do delicate tasks i frequently have no choice but to not use gloves.:headwally:
 
AlgaeFix breaks down in our tanks quickly, within 24 hrs. For those concerned, I would wait 24 hrs after any application before you place your hands in the water. Personally, I'm not concerned about it at least at the concentrations we are talking about. ;)

When handling the concentrate, using gloves will help to prevent skin contact in the concentrated form.
 
FWIW, I would be more concerned about some of the toxins produced by our coral, algae, dinos....etc in our tanks. ;)

Thanks for the reply...:beer:
I am on day 2 of AF treatment,(dosed last night, waiting on day 3), due to $$$ problems my 220 has been setup for a year without a skimmer(upgraded from a 72g Bow), even with large water changes algae continues to grow. Thankfully I found a used ATB 840 so now I have a skimmer again. With a little saving I will have my reactors for carbon,GFO and mabey bio-pellets. Hopefully this will put a dent in the algae growth.
 
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