all my fish are dying, what disease is it?

[sensei]

I have a 150g FOWLR
5 weeks ago I added 5 new fish after doing TTM, 2 shoots of prazi and 1 formalin dip and observation time.

the new fish that were added are:
Picasso Triggerfish
Heniochus Black & White Butterflyfish
Porcupine Puffer
Latticed Butterflyfish
midas gobby

the established fih in tank were:
1 Clownfish
1 Lyretail anthia
1 Cortez angel

the first that died was the picaso it did now show any signs, it eat like champ the day before, after that one by one of the fish have been dying with no aparent symptom to me and they all have been eating the day before.

today I took a light and shoot some pics of the clown and I could see the sickness but I am not sure what is it.

can you please help me identify and tell how to treat it?
the only fish that looks good today is the puffer. I am not sure if clown will make it to tomorrow but it is the fish that I could photograh and see the actual disease

thanks a lot

 

[scuzy]

That looks like velvet.


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[scuzy]

How long was your observation time? As you should of seen the powdery looks.


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[JustinM]

I agree with Scuzy, more than likely Velvet. It looks like brook but you did formalin dips.

If you want your remaining fish to survive, you will need to remove them and treat in a hospital tank. There are 2 treatments for velvet.
-copper
-CP

You will see a better survival rate for your fish if you FW dip(provides a tremendous relief as it removes mucous from their gills)them first and then give them an acriflavine bath. If you don’t have any wrasses, hippo tangs, or anthias, CP is the best choice here so you can go right into therapeutic levels.

With copper, you can’t wait a few days to get them to therapeutic levels. You will need to do it over the course of one day, if not sooner or they can still die.

 

[sensei]

I agree with Scuzy, more than likely Velvet. It looks like brook but you did formalin dips.

If you want your remaining fish to survive, you will need to remove them and treat in a hospital tank. There are 2 treatments for velvet.
-copper
-CP

You will see a better survival rate for your fish if you FW dip(provides a tremendous relief as it removes mucous from their gills)them first and then give them an acriflavine bath. If you don't have any wrasses, hippo tangs, or anthias, CP is the best choice here so you can go right into therapeutic levels.

With copper, you can't wait a few days to get them to therapeutic levels. You will need to do it over the course of one day, if not sooner or they can still die.

Justin

I only did 1 formalin dip. I don´t know if 1 dip would be enough to rid of brook in a fish that has the disease?? maybe it is better to do 4 dips at the end of each TTM.

also it may be wise to do CP in qt even when there are no symptoms??

I have read that a dose of 60mg/g for 30 days should do it?

I do not have acriflavine at hand but I do have CP.
I have neeer done a FW bath to a fish before. I just read about it but it says that you need to equal the ph of the salt water in FW with a buffer. how do you ussually do it?

Thanks a lot

 

[sensei]

How long was your observation time? As you should of seen the powdery looks.


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Scuzy,
thanks for your answer
I observed these fish 3 weeks including the TTM, I usually do 6 weeks but since I had only 3 fish in FOWLR and new ones looked good I decided to let them in after the treatment. Wrong decision!

fish started dying 7 weeks after I got them.
What is the recomended total qt time for fish

when should I have seen the powdery look?

how can you tell it is velvet and not brooks?

thanks again

 

[JustinM]

To treat brook, you usually give as many baths as needed. If you have formalin on hand, you can use that instead of acriflavine. See if all the spots go away. If it doesn’t help much, move on to CP and begin treatment for velvet.

With CP it is 80mg/gallon. A FW dip is pretty simple. I always used a specimen container, filled it with ro/di water, and let it temp acclimate. While it’s heating up, throw an air stone in there and let it aerate. Once up to temp, put the fish in. The will play dead but their gills should be moving very fast. If the gills slow down, pull them out. As for pH, a couple splashes of tank water will bring it up. Anywhere between 3-5 min will suffice.

 

[sensei]

To treat brook, you usually give as many baths as needed. If you have formalin on hand, you can use that instead of acriflavine. See if all the spots go away. If it doesn't help much, move on to CP and begin treatment for velvet.

With CP it is 80mg/gallon. A FW dip is pretty simple. I always used a specimen container, filled it with ro/di water, and let it temp acclimate. While it's heating up, throw an air stone in there and let it aerate. Once up to temp, put the fish in. The will play dead but their gills should be moving very fast. If the gills slow down, pull them out. As for pH, a couple splashes of tank water will bring it up. Anywhere between 3-5 min will suffice.

Thanks Justin,

CP works for both brooks and velvet correct?
if this is the case it is better to treat with CP right form the start?
80mg/g for 1 month?

FW dips:
what is specimen container ( how many g container)?
what do you mean by a couple splashes of tank water will bring it up?

thanks a lot

 

[JustinM]

You are correct, CP does treat brook as well. The reason for using the acriflavine or formalin is it will increase the odds of fish surviving velvet.

Acriflavine is the best choice as a pre bath for treatment of velvet. This is because secondary infections are very common with velvet. All of the bite marks from velvet are prone to infection, acriflavine is an antiseptic so it helps immensely. Formalin will work though as it helps knock back some of the parasite. Formalin is a carcinogen though.

Treatment is for one month for both copper and CP. A specimen container is what the LFS users to hold your fish when they are caught.

https://www.marinedepot.com/miscellaneous_specimen_container-

For bringing the pH up, literally put your hand in your salt tank and splash some water into the specimen container.

 

[JustinM]

With velvet, you don’t want to wait till tomorrow if possible. You don’t need a specimen container, anything will work like Tupperware. I believe the FW dip is the most important because it helps them receive oxygen again. Their gills become lined with lots of mucous preventing them from breathing more or less. That is why you’ll see their gills moving real quick. If you can tonight, FW dip them and place them right into CP.

CP will kill your lyretail so copper is needed to treat that.

 

[sensei]

Thanks Justin,

lyretail and clown are dead now.
I am only left with 1 fish: a porcupine puffer.
I cannot see any symptoms in the puffer.
should I just put him in CP and no previous FW or formalin dip?

thanks a lot

 

[sensei]

Puffer is in CP now. I feed him and he eat like a champ before going to CP.

I am not sure if puffer are more resistant fish?

I need to modify my qt protocol.

I have been doing:
TTM, 2 shoots of prazi and 1 formalin dip

maybe it is also a good idea to do 4 formalin dips instead of one at the end of each TTM, and also do CP in the observation time after TTM

what do you think?

do you think 2 months of qt and observation should be enough for any sickness to develop and avoid going to dt?

thanks a lot

 

[BlueMoods]

I would also run a UV sterilizer on the QT tank, and run one for the next 3 months at least on your main tank - kill a lot of common ich type diseases before they pose a problem again.

 

[JustinM]

I am sorry for all of this. It has happened to me before as well. It act cause me to leave the hobby for a few years because it was so saddening. Velvet is horrible!

I do not do TTM for this reason, it doesn't take care of velvet or brook. This is my regime.
-FW dip all incoming fish and give an acriflavine bath
-place fish in QT and get them eating
-once eating, bring cupramine levels up to therapeutic slowly
-treat with copper for 30 days
-move all fish new sterile tank after copper treatment
-treat with prazipro for 2 weeks
-one more acriflavine bath before going to DT

This all takes about 45 days but I have not lost a single fish by doing this. Also, I am feeding metroplex bound to frozen food with focus during QT to eliminate internal parasites.

What works for me, may not work for you. I also have CP on hand to treat fish that are sensitive to copper.

 

[JustinM]

I would also run a UV sterilizer on the QT tank, and run one for the next 3 months at least on your main tank - kill a lot of common ich type diseases before they pose a problem again.

UV will kill some of the ich but never all. Plus we are dealing with velvet here. You would have better luck feeding live brine shrimp than using UV. Live BBS are known to eat dinospores. Also, the fallow period is 6 weeks with velvet so 90 days is not needed.

 

[sensei]

Thanks Justin,

TTM is realy easy to do, I have treated more than 50 fish successfully, not even one has failed with ich.
I have never done cupramine, if I could replace cupramine with CP while fish is in observation that would be easy for me.

have you done a lot of CP??
I have read that 80mg may sometimes show a loss of apetite.

what do you think of a protocol like this one:

TTM 4 times ( 3 days each)
prazi on 2nd TTM and 4th TTM
formalin dip at the end of each TTM totaling 4 dips
CP at 40mg /g 30 days in observation after TTM (except fish that are sensitive)

are FW dips very useful?
how many can you do to a fish with out harming ?
all fish can resist them?

please tell me what you think

thanks a lot

 

[JustinM]

FW dips just let me know if a fish has flukes or if they’re sick, it’ll help buy time. They are not harmful to fish as long as they’re not done daily.

Cp is therapeutic at 40mg/gallon and works quite well at prophylactically treating. The reason for velvet being 80mg/gallon is because it moves so fast and it will work quicker.

That sounds like a pretty good plan, I would just change out the formalin for acriflavine personally. I do not like formalin because it is a carcinogen.

I use copper mostly but will use CP on fish I can’t treat with copper. I keep a lot of wrasses, this is why copper is my first choice.

 

[sensei]

Thanks a lot Justin

one more question:
how can a FW dip let you know if fish is sick??
you mean if it has flukes? or other sickness con also be revealed with FWdip?

I believe flukes become white after being exposed to FW dip correct??

 

[JustinM]

I mean if it were to have velvet, ich, or brook, it helps them by clearing the mucous on the gills. A lot of times LFS’s will keep fish in low levels of copper masking parasites. It will just help buy time if it were velvet or something.

 

[sensei]

Thanks a lot