Amino Acids??
- Thread starter dvanacker
- Start date
Just the basics here...There are about 20 known amino acids, I believe, and these form together in many different combinations to create larger molecules of protein. Proteins, of course, are essential in cell development. Amino acids are very important for all life forms in order for cells to function. I will look around for some more info on aminos and corals and post later if I find some good stuff...I know one place where a fellow reefer discusses things on the cellular level often. Some of it over my head but I get a lot of it.
I don't know if any of this will be helpful or not but I thought I would throw some info on here with respect to aminos. 
This quote of Anthony Calfo was used in a discussion on another forum on the topic of coral feeding philosophy.
Coral tissue is composed of proteins, carbohydrates, and lipids (fats). The carbohydrates are used as food and stored for energy with lipids. Underfed or straved corals quickly deplete carbohydrates and this a fact of great significance to aquarists striving to culture coral. Aside from the understanding that a certain amount of fats and oils are necessary for maintenance, it is believed that lipid levels are instrumental in spawning and preparedness for reproduction. It has been demonstrated that corals spawn in the wild when lipid concentrations are elevated.. It stands to reason that any attempt at coral propagation should involve properly fed animals, if not for scientific reasons, then out of common sense.
Extracted from:
Book of Coral Propagation. Volume 1, Version 1.0. Reef Gardening for Aquarists.
Anthony Calfo, p. 211, 2001-2003.
Another excerpt from the same discussion
Corals are animals, whether or not they are zooxanthellate, and they will appropriate useable nutrients from their environment. First and foremost, these include organic nutrients that are dissolved in the water, particularly amino acids, vitamins, and sugars. The coral absorbs these nutrients through the epidermis of its body surfaces. For example, dissolved free amino acids (DFAAs) are absorbed independently of the external concentration of ammonium (Hoegh-Guldberg and Williamson 1999). Similar observations have been made in giant clams in genus Tridacna (Ambariyanto and Hoegh-Guldberg 1999). Once again, observations such as these emphasize the importance of distinguishing between inorganic (easily measured) and organic (hard to measure) nutrients. It is very likely that both are processed at the same time and independently from one another.
Extracted from:
Coral. Volume 1, Number 3.
Nutrients in the Reef Aquarium - Part III. Feeding Zooxanthellate Corals.
Jorg Kokott, June/July 2004.
More from Anthony Calfo...
Whatever the mechanisms by which a coral acquires food, it is certain that the diets of corals include more than just the products of their zooxanthellae. They probably include the bacteria associated with corals, as well. The synthesis of a multitude of bacteria may provide the coral with some important organic nutrients, such as vitamins, rare amino acids, or fatty acids. The coral may also benefit from the production of natural antibiotics by the bacteria, which make the coral resistant to various pathogens.
Care for more???
The word "nutrient" is often misunderstood. The terms "high nutrient" and "low nutrient" can be taken in many contexts. In general, nutrients are those organic and inorganic compounds necessary to sustain life. While this comprises a very large group of potential compounds, nutrients are often simplified in terms of those elements that are major "building blocks" for fats, amino acids, and carbohydrates. Furthermore, they are frequently those elements which tend to limit further growth by their availability and ability to be procured.
Extracted from:
Reefkeeping Online Magazine (July 2002)
Coralmania with Eric Borneman
Reef Food
Borneman 2002
And one last bit...This is in regards to grafting coral species, a conversation initiated with regards to the Tyree LE simplex acro that has two color pigments in one coral.
First of all, the only grafting I know of is tissue and cellular level grafting whereby tissue or cells are removed from one place and attached to another place. People receive grafts of bone marrow tissue a but here we are talking about groups of cells that can be cultured in the proper medium ie the right bones or a culture. This is possible because one cell has all of the genetic coding it needs to replicate itself from
DNA-->RNA--> Proteins (assembled from amino acids)
Pigments are proteins and proteins have a lifespan of anywhere from days to months but the point is they eventually breakdown. pigments are assembled from Amino Acids as instructed by DNA via RNA. Any of you ever see a picture of a pigment dividing in your HS or college biology book? I didnt think so. therefore, i cannot envision any way that a foreign protein can propagate itself through cells and tissue.
The only reference to "protein grafting" discussed the addition of one assembly of amino acids to a pre-existing protein to alter its function, this is called bio-chemical engineering and it can only occur under very precise conditions, either way, there is no self replicating protein involved.
This quote of Anthony Calfo was used in a discussion on another forum on the topic of coral feeding philosophy.
Coral tissue is composed of proteins, carbohydrates, and lipids (fats). The carbohydrates are used as food and stored for energy with lipids. Underfed or straved corals quickly deplete carbohydrates and this a fact of great significance to aquarists striving to culture coral. Aside from the understanding that a certain amount of fats and oils are necessary for maintenance, it is believed that lipid levels are instrumental in spawning and preparedness for reproduction. It has been demonstrated that corals spawn in the wild when lipid concentrations are elevated.. It stands to reason that any attempt at coral propagation should involve properly fed animals, if not for scientific reasons, then out of common sense.
Extracted from:
Book of Coral Propagation. Volume 1, Version 1.0. Reef Gardening for Aquarists.
Anthony Calfo, p. 211, 2001-2003.
Another excerpt from the same discussion
Corals are animals, whether or not they are zooxanthellate, and they will appropriate useable nutrients from their environment. First and foremost, these include organic nutrients that are dissolved in the water, particularly amino acids, vitamins, and sugars. The coral absorbs these nutrients through the epidermis of its body surfaces. For example, dissolved free amino acids (DFAAs) are absorbed independently of the external concentration of ammonium (Hoegh-Guldberg and Williamson 1999). Similar observations have been made in giant clams in genus Tridacna (Ambariyanto and Hoegh-Guldberg 1999). Once again, observations such as these emphasize the importance of distinguishing between inorganic (easily measured) and organic (hard to measure) nutrients. It is very likely that both are processed at the same time and independently from one another.
Extracted from:
Coral. Volume 1, Number 3.
Nutrients in the Reef Aquarium - Part III. Feeding Zooxanthellate Corals.
Jorg Kokott, June/July 2004.
More from Anthony Calfo...
Whatever the mechanisms by which a coral acquires food, it is certain that the diets of corals include more than just the products of their zooxanthellae. They probably include the bacteria associated with corals, as well. The synthesis of a multitude of bacteria may provide the coral with some important organic nutrients, such as vitamins, rare amino acids, or fatty acids. The coral may also benefit from the production of natural antibiotics by the bacteria, which make the coral resistant to various pathogens.
Care for more???
The word "nutrient" is often misunderstood. The terms "high nutrient" and "low nutrient" can be taken in many contexts. In general, nutrients are those organic and inorganic compounds necessary to sustain life. While this comprises a very large group of potential compounds, nutrients are often simplified in terms of those elements that are major "building blocks" for fats, amino acids, and carbohydrates. Furthermore, they are frequently those elements which tend to limit further growth by their availability and ability to be procured.
Extracted from:
Reefkeeping Online Magazine (July 2002)
Coralmania with Eric Borneman
Reef Food
Borneman 2002
And one last bit...This is in regards to grafting coral species, a conversation initiated with regards to the Tyree LE simplex acro that has two color pigments in one coral.
First of all, the only grafting I know of is tissue and cellular level grafting whereby tissue or cells are removed from one place and attached to another place. People receive grafts of bone marrow tissue a but here we are talking about groups of cells that can be cultured in the proper medium ie the right bones or a culture. This is possible because one cell has all of the genetic coding it needs to replicate itself from
DNA-->RNA--> Proteins (assembled from amino acids)
Pigments are proteins and proteins have a lifespan of anywhere from days to months but the point is they eventually breakdown. pigments are assembled from Amino Acids as instructed by DNA via RNA. Any of you ever see a picture of a pigment dividing in your HS or college biology book? I didnt think so. therefore, i cannot envision any way that a foreign protein can propagate itself through cells and tissue.
The only reference to "protein grafting" discussed the addition of one assembly of amino acids to a pre-existing protein to alter its function, this is called bio-chemical engineering and it can only occur under very precise conditions, either way, there is no self replicating protein involved.
jamesdawson
New member
Fauna Marin Ultramin S--I get fantastic results using this and their foods.
James
James
Lobster
Premium Member
Good idea for a thread.
I know recently people talk of amino acids for use in pigments, but it also may play a role in calcification.
There is a thread in the chemistry forum about this where RHF gives these references:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=905301
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=746663
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=458316
Excerpts from a great article, RHF on calcification mechanisms:
"Organic molecules are known to play a substantial role in the formation of calcium carbonate in many organisms... In the case of corals, we have relatively little information about exactly what these organic materials are doing. The structures of some of these proteins contain an unusually large number of aspartic acid residues. These amino acids are capable of binding to calcium, but whether that is a critical function or not has not been established."
and...
"Regardless of the mechanisms involved, the need for these organics in calcification is easily verified. Allemand et al14 have studied the role of such materials in Stylophora pistillata. Interestingly, they find that inhibitors of protein synthesis reduce the rate of calcification considerably. For example, reducing protein synthesis by 60-85% reduced calcification by 50%. A similar result was found by inhibiting glycoprotein synthesis. These results did not come about because of reduced metabolism, but rather by specific effects of reduced protein and glycoprotein synthesis. The most important conclusion in their paper may be that the rate of skeletogenesis may be more limited by the rate of biosynthesis and exocytosis of organic matrix proteins rather than by calcium deposition. "
and...
"Interestingly, the apparently large need for a particular amino acid (aspartic acid) to synthesize these proteins is satisfied by external sources, not by either the coral itself or the zooxanthellae. For this reason, it might be interesting to see what added aspartic acid does to calcification rates in reef tanks."
If that interests you, also check out this thread on aspartic acid use in the aquarium. This is a great thread with info from habib specific to Salifer's product, which I am thinking of trying.
I know recently people talk of amino acids for use in pigments, but it also may play a role in calcification.
There is a thread in the chemistry forum about this where RHF gives these references:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=905301
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=746663
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=458316
Excerpts from a great article, RHF on calcification mechanisms:
"Organic molecules are known to play a substantial role in the formation of calcium carbonate in many organisms... In the case of corals, we have relatively little information about exactly what these organic materials are doing. The structures of some of these proteins contain an unusually large number of aspartic acid residues. These amino acids are capable of binding to calcium, but whether that is a critical function or not has not been established."
and...
"Regardless of the mechanisms involved, the need for these organics in calcification is easily verified. Allemand et al14 have studied the role of such materials in Stylophora pistillata. Interestingly, they find that inhibitors of protein synthesis reduce the rate of calcification considerably. For example, reducing protein synthesis by 60-85% reduced calcification by 50%. A similar result was found by inhibiting glycoprotein synthesis. These results did not come about because of reduced metabolism, but rather by specific effects of reduced protein and glycoprotein synthesis. The most important conclusion in their paper may be that the rate of skeletogenesis may be more limited by the rate of biosynthesis and exocytosis of organic matrix proteins rather than by calcium deposition. "
and...
"Interestingly, the apparently large need for a particular amino acid (aspartic acid) to synthesize these proteins is satisfied by external sources, not by either the coral itself or the zooxanthellae. For this reason, it might be interesting to see what added aspartic acid does to calcification rates in reef tanks."
If that interests you, also check out this thread on aspartic acid use in the aquarium. This is a great thread with info from habib specific to Salifer's product, which I am thinking of trying.
MiddletonMark
Premium Member
Another link, regarding Amino Acid synthesis by stony corals:
http://www.biochemj.org/bj/322/0213/3220213.pdf
-- Conclusion section of article --
In summary, all five species of scleractinian corals tested could
synthesize at least 16 of the 20 protein amino acids, eight of
which are essential in other Metazoa examined so far. It remains
to be determined whether attached or coelenteric bacteria are
responsible for some of the synthesis. Even if bacteria are in
fact responsible for the synthesis, however, this finding is
significant from an ecological-unit perspective. If coral gut
bacteria or bacterial endosymbionts regularly convert sugars
(which reef corals receive from their zooxanthellae) into amino
acids, and if corals have access to bacterial products (e.g. digestion
of bacteria or bacterial excretion of amino acids into the
coelenteron), then in a functional sense corals have a previously
unaccounted-for source of protein and amino acids. Despite the
apparent ability of corals to synthesize some essential amino
acids, rates of amino acid synthesis seem to be greater for those
amino acids that are typically non-essential, and slower for
those amino acids that are typically essential, with the exception
of histidine. The role of synthesis in satisfying metabolic
requirements for `essential ' amino acids still needs to be determined.
--
Pretty interesting, to note that ideally the coral themselves are helping the process
That said, it also does say that corals took in some that they provided.
It's interesting that the bacteria associated directly with the coral is mentioned as being involved in the process. Reminds me that I may not want to expose my corals much to dips that affect the coral's bacterial community.
I have used a couple types of Aminos for periods in the past, not sure if I think it does much more than regular small feedings [IMO!] - just a convenient method of adding small amounts of nutrients to the tank, something that IMO is often beneficial when trying to replicate a reef where food is flowing past continually.
I just don't think it's the only method of achieving these results, some feed their Anthias a couple times a day and may achieve a similar nutrient-availability pattern. But beyond possible nutrient issues and cash-flow issues, I can't see that it's likely to be harmful to the tank, though.
Needed? You gotta decide that for yourself.
http://www.biochemj.org/bj/322/0213/3220213.pdf
-- Conclusion section of article --
In summary, all five species of scleractinian corals tested could
synthesize at least 16 of the 20 protein amino acids, eight of
which are essential in other Metazoa examined so far. It remains
to be determined whether attached or coelenteric bacteria are
responsible for some of the synthesis. Even if bacteria are in
fact responsible for the synthesis, however, this finding is
significant from an ecological-unit perspective. If coral gut
bacteria or bacterial endosymbionts regularly convert sugars
(which reef corals receive from their zooxanthellae) into amino
acids, and if corals have access to bacterial products (e.g. digestion
of bacteria or bacterial excretion of amino acids into the
coelenteron), then in a functional sense corals have a previously
unaccounted-for source of protein and amino acids. Despite the
apparent ability of corals to synthesize some essential amino
acids, rates of amino acid synthesis seem to be greater for those
amino acids that are typically non-essential, and slower for
those amino acids that are typically essential, with the exception
of histidine. The role of synthesis in satisfying metabolic
requirements for `essential ' amino acids still needs to be determined.
--
Pretty interesting, to note that ideally the coral themselves are helping the process
That said, it also does say that corals took in some that they provided.
It's interesting that the bacteria associated directly with the coral is mentioned as being involved in the process. Reminds me that I may not want to expose my corals much to dips that affect the coral's bacterial community.
I have used a couple types of Aminos for periods in the past, not sure if I think it does much more than regular small feedings [IMO!] - just a convenient method of adding small amounts of nutrients to the tank, something that IMO is often beneficial when trying to replicate a reef where food is flowing past continually.
I just don't think it's the only method of achieving these results, some feed their Anthias a couple times a day and may achieve a similar nutrient-availability pattern. But beyond possible nutrient issues and cash-flow issues, I can't see that it's likely to be harmful to the tank, though.
Needed? You gotta decide that for yourself.
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