An uncycled qt and emergencies: perfectly safe and works if...

[Alleysaurus]

I have a Coral Beauty that has what appears to be a bacterial disease. I've had him for about a week and he just started showing obvious symptoms yesterday morning. The infection has visibly reduced since yesterday with no treatment but he has been acting strange. Breathing rapidly, he has been swimming fairly still, mostly just kind of swimming in place but still swimming, and has not been picking at my live rocks at all today.

I am wondering
1st should I proceed with medicating?
Yesterday I bought a medication with Tetracycline Hydrochloride as the active ingredient. Will this be suitable?

Also, what do you recommend as a minimum tank size to QT him in?
I have a 5 gallon bucket I usually pre-mix water in with two powerheads in it or, if that isn't large enough, a 20 Long tank not currently in use.
Lastly, do I need to put live rock in for him so he has the option to graze when/if he improves?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Fish_King_25]

I don't believe in meds until and if you know the fish has a problem, and what problem it has: not all meds are benign: copper isn't; and if you guess wrong, you've got to back the fish off one treatment and start another that isn't compatible with the last one...

So what I advise is pure water for 4 weeks gradually bringing salinity up to the dt level (if it was hypo to start)---and giving the CUC those 4 weeks to bring the newly-cycled sandbed up to snuff, simply by eating and poo'ing and living. If that tank won't support snails, you surely don't want to put a fish into it. The qt should be a comfy r&r for the fish in which all changes are slow and he can eat without being challenged or pushed.

Awesome..thanks so much Sk8r! I feel the same way as far as medicating goes..if and when I get a QT setup for my next fish..I don't believe I'll be medicating everything as a preventative measure..rather just if a disease appears to be present.

 

[Sk8r]

The bucket is ok, but doesn't let you observe him, and angels are a high-oxygen fish: providing sufficient oxygenation is going to be a problem. I'd say at least a 10 gallon tank if at all possible, with a strong pump for agitation and an ATO to prevent dosage from spiking. That's one of the worst hazards in attempting to treat: evaporation concentrates the meds dangerously. An autotopoff for your hospital is a real help.b

 

[Sand.man]

I have a question regarding this type of setup.

How would one go about medicating with this setup? considering that the tank is not cycled, I would assume that one would have to perform daily water changes to keep the ammonia at 0.

Most medications require a 5-7 day treatment (such as prazi-pro), so whats the best method of medicating with this setup?

Would it simply be performing water changes with medicated water? Isn't it easy to over/under medicate that way?

Or, would it be better to use something like prime/amquel instead? Or a combination of both?

Which would be the best course of action? or is there another method that I'm not thinking of?

Just a bit confused about how a fish might live for 7 days in medicated water without a biological filter.

Also, if one is medicating for 7 days, but also topping up the evaporated water with freshwater, the medication acts like salt, as in it doesn't get evaporated right? It's not like the top-up freshwater might end up diluting the medication because it evaporated?

Thanks!

 

[Sk8r]

As long as the water addition is because of evaporation---the med doesn't evaporate. The topoff keeps the solution the same by keeping the water level even.
What you change (often) is the filter medium. I usually use a bit of pillow floss with NO carbon inside for a medicated tank. (carbon removes some meds). I change that floss every time it shows the least stain, which is biological activity, because it is too little to handle the ammonia. I use an ammonia badge. If I DO a water change, I treat the replacement water at the same rate I treated the whole tank: one advantage of the uncycled tank is that you can change out ALL the water if you need to. Just do the math for dosage and keep the fish in a small bucket while you change out water.
Ammonia comes from ammonium in the fish's respiration and excretion processes: the faster and more efficiently you can remove fish poo and uneaten food, the better; and of course---don't overfeed. count every flake that fish eats and be sure where it went.
HEre's one of Randy's articles on ammonia that, while technical, will also give you some down-to-earth info. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/#6

 

[StaySalty]

Great post, QT tanks are something I completely misunderstood. I thought they must be cycled.

 

[Shan85]

Was wondering .. Can I convert a used freshwater tank into a QT?

Take out all sand/gravel .. Put a PVC elbow.. Use the old air pump with fresh saltwater. Will this work?

 

[Sk8r]

Works fine. Use the old air pump to drive a pot filter...you may need more agitation than that: that's the thing to watch. Just clean it well with white vinegar, and don't reuse the sand or rock! Sand and rock gives ich a place to hide and lurk. So do filter pads. But you toss those often.

 

[Sand.man]

Oh I see. So water changes with medicated water.

Thanks for all your help Sk8r =).

 

[CindyK]

I have an old 40 gal in my basement that was home to a snake a few years back. It still holds water...can I safely use it as a QT after a good vinegar cleaning? Do I need to take any additional steps?

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[SeaTila]

Sk8r, Thnx. You have really helped so many you are not even aware about. Since this was opened back up and always relevant...I want to take new biocube with live sand and resin decor and move fish to it to make dt fallow. You mentionedn qt does need cycle but you have to keep filter clean to stop tank from cycling. My question is about the stability and quickstart products. Do you need to worry about the filter and cycle/ ammonia if you dose those products and ensure bio filter stones, sponge etc is in the tank?

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[heathlindner25]

Great post, QT tanks are something I completely misunderstood. I thought they must be cycled.

In some people's opinion, they do. Ammonia is a fish killer,and builds up fast. Especially with larger fish in small qt.

 

[Sk8r]

As long as the water and filters are scrupulously clean, it won't cycle. Cycling means producing and then consuming ammonia. Unfortunately if your tank starts to cycle while fish are in it, it's bad news. Or if your system gets overwhelmed with more crud than your 'cycled qt' can handle, you also get ammonia. So it's a case of keeping on top of the chemistry---and it's better to have a little container of basic test strips you dip in anytime you're curious or worried than a fancy kit that's too much trouble to use often enough. Keep atop the water quality.