Angels have ick, running out of options, may even quit the hobby!

[DamnPepShrimp]

Ok, I know everyone is probably tired of ich threads, but I have done tons of research. I am looking for suggestions on what to do with my setup though. Ich is driving me to the point where I may just sell off my whole setup, I love my fish and want everything to be happy and healthy. So please help me solve my problem so I can continue in the hobby. I have a 125g that had an outbreak of some kind of disease, a mix of ich and velvet I believe. It wiped out my psuedochromis, clown and emperor angel. Since then I got my queen (3") and damsels out and put them in a QT tank. I have a 100g skimmer on the tank, emp280 and peng150 with filter pads, no carbon, and pvc pieces for fish to hide in. Then I got a new emperor (4"), everyone got along fine in a 55g QT tank. I then added a gray (5-6") angel to the tank as well a few days later. I know it's overkill but it's a long story behind the gray. Anyway, all the angels get along good, the emperor is boss and gives a little chase to the gray, but no fighting, nothing.

Everything has been in the QT tank for over 2 weeks together, the emperor over 3 and the queen over 4. A few days ago, I had an ich out break... bad! It's weird, in the morning they seem fine, then later in the day it gets very bad! They are covered in ich! All my angels are eating fine though, they are still all pigs, although I have noticed a little less activity in the tank. I suspect the ich is getting to them somewhat, but they still eat good. I didn't know what copper levels should be at, so it's only at .05 ppm right now. I read that it should be around .2 to be effective, but not over .25 or it could kill the fish. I don't like the idea of hypo but I may have to do that. I don't have a refractometer, so I can't do it right now, I was thinking of buying a cheap one off ebay.

What should I do to get rid of ich in the QT tank? Slowly increase copper to .2ppm? Would a freshwater dip stress them out too much and cause them to be more susceptible to ich? I feed my fish a mix of clam, angel diet, mysis shrimp and emerald entree mixed in with either selcon or boyds vitachem. I am starting to soak their algae sheets in garlic to help build up their immune system. What else can I do? I do a 10g water change weekly on the QT tank, should I do more or less? Raise the copper up to .2 ppm and keep feeing them garlic soaked foods? Is there anything else I can do? I understand that I can't kill the ich on the fish, but when it cycles, it breaks off and goes to the bottom to reproduce. I can kill that form. But I guess it isn't happening. Upping the copper should kill them, and then I won't see any more ich on the fish. Wait another 30 days before I add them back to my display? My 125g has been fishless since march 9th.

Please help me cure my fish and have a happy healthy aquarium, I don't want to get out of the hobby, but this is almost forcing me too! Thanks!

 

[Hattie B]

Hi,

First, don't give up, when its all said and done you will have a worry free display tank with no parasites, something to enjoy for many many years to come.

First, your probably not going to like this but get the refract. and do the hypo and save yourself some stress. =)

And your right about the copper, copper in order to be effective has to reach therapeutic levels, if your not reaching them then its not going to be effective.

Your QT tank Water changes depend on the parameters, ammoina and nitrates and how many fish, how much you feed esc.. And pH.

If you contiune with copper you need to get to the therapeutic levels.

I personally would go with hypo.

I would contiune to feed them a good diet, fish that eat are a plus.

Whatever you do don't give up and throw them into the main, or you will have ich in there and then when you add more fish you run the risk of them contracting the parasite, esc..

The ich will get better in the QT tank when you start a treatment that works, if ineffective levels is what you are treating with then essentially your really not treating. the cycle keeps going and going.

And yes let that main sit fallow for at least 6-8 weeks. After you treat your fish then they appear healthy with no signs of ich, wait another 6 weeks then add them.

You will be very happy that you took the time to treat them, not only for their health but you will be able to enjoy them for and long time and not have to worry about that nasty parasite.

Best,
HB

 

[TerryB]

I agree with Hattie and I hope your qtank is cycled. You should never add new fish to a Qtank with fish that are already sick. Check the pH daily when using hypo and add a buffer as needed. An accurate refractometer is the only way to go. To avoid such a situation in the future, ALWAYS quarantine (as in isolate all alone) new fish for a minimum of three weeks prior to adding them to the display tank.

Cheers,
Terry B

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

Thank you for the responses. Well, looks like I will have to get that refractometer, will this one be ok?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Salinity-Salt-R...104071691QQcategoryZ11876QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So I have to monitor Ph mainly when treating with hypo? Why is copper not so effective? I should stop the copper treatment when I start the hypo correct? It would be too much. I was also told hypo won't kill the ich, but slow it down and not kill all of the ich? MY fish look better this morning, but by the end of the day, they get worse. So I should follow the hypo treatment and leave them in low salinity until needed. I have to do more reading on hypo. Then when they are ich free, wait another 4 weeks or so to see if any more ich is present in the tank? Any other suggestions would be great or more advice. Thanks for your time, if that refractometer is good enough, I will order it. I guess all I can do is continue copper until I get it and soak their food in garlic.

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

I still don't understand how hypo is the best treatment. It seems that hypo only slows down the ich, so what kills them? Some ich will still be alive after hypo, so what do you do to get completely rid of ich?

 

[andrewsmart]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9636536#post9636536 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DamnPepShrimp
I still don't understand how hypo is the best treatment. It seems that hypo only slows down the ich, so what kills them? Some ich will still be alive after hypo, so what do you do to get completely rid of ich?

all ich parsites which drop of die so after a short while you will have no ich

look in the library of www.marineaquariumadvice.com

under news from the waterfront very good articles on ich.

 

[andrewsmart]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9635847#post9635847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DamnPepShrimp
Thank you for the responses. Well, looks like I will have to get that refractometer, will this one be ok?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Salinity-Salt-R...104071691QQcategoryZ11876QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So I have to monitor Ph mainly when treating with hypo? Why is copper not so effective? I should stop the copper treatment when I start the hypo correct? It would be too much. I was also told hypo won't kill the ich, but slow it down and not kill all of the ich? MY fish look better this morning, but by the end of the day, they get worse. So I should follow the hypo treatment and leave them in low salinity until needed. I have to do more reading on hypo. Then when they are ich free, wait another 4 weeks or so to see if any more ich is present in the tank? Any other suggestions would be great or more advice. Thanks for your time, if that refractometer is good enough, I will order it. I guess all I can do is continue copper until I get it and soak their food in garlic.

start dropping the salt level using your hydrometer you won't need the refractometer untill it is at the critical point.

stop using the copper and read the articles i gave you copper is a poison and suppreses the imune system that is why it is not recommended anymore.

you monitor the ph carefully as it is the salt in the water which buffers the ph and you won't have much salt so you have to sort it manually.

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

Ok, I have been doing a ton of research! If only I did this much with school, haha. Ok, I understand that hypo slows the ich down, and they aren't as strong. Also makes the fish stronger, less stressed, and easier to breathe etc. Therefore the fish actually fight off the ich and since they don't have a host, they die. Do I have it right now?

Here is my plan. I am borrowing a refractometer and UV sterilizer tonight. My SG is already around 1.013 so I am not too far off. My fish seem a lot better today, no ich. So the ich must be in the stage where it goes to the bottom to multiply. That is why I want to run the UV sterilizer to kill the ich while it is in that stage before it attaches to my fish again. Does this sound like a good plan? How long should I run the UV for? I am putting carbon in my tank to get rid of any copper I may have, my Cu level was under .1 so it isn't that bad. I am going to continue to feed with garlic soaked foods. So am I doing everything right? This should kill ich off correct? I just don't know how long to run the UV for and if anything else I need to worry about. I will be monitoring PH and every other level, I have PH buffer to 8.3 so I should be good. What about water changes? How often and much? Other then that, I think I should be good, run a 1.009 SG until the last sign of ick is gone, then for 4 weeks after that to make sure it is completely dead. I just don't know how long can the fish be ok at 1.009 SG? Thanks for everyone's help!

 

[andrewsmart]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9638665#post9638665 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DamnPepShrimp
Ok, I have been doing a ton of research! If only I did this much with school, haha. Ok, I understand that hypo slows the ich down, and they aren't as strong. Also makes the fish stronger, less stressed, and easier to breathe etc. Therefore the fish actually fight off the ich and since they don't have a host, they die. Do I have it right now?

Here is my plan. I am borrowing a refractometer and UV sterilizer tonight. My SG is already around 1.013 so I am not too far off. My fish seem a lot better today, no ich. So the ich must be in the stage where it goes to the bottom to multiply. That is why I want to run the UV sterilizer to kill the ich while it is in that stage before it attaches to my fish again. Does this sound like a good plan? How long should I run the UV for? I am putting carbon in my tank to get rid of any copper I may have, my Cu level was under .1 so it isn't that bad. I am going to continue to feed with garlic soaked foods. So am I doing everything right? This should kill ich off correct? I just don't know how long to run the UV for and if anything else I need to worry about. I will be monitoring PH and every other level, I have PH buffer to 8.3 so I should be good. What about water changes? How often and much? Other then that, I think I should be good, run a 1.009 SG until the last sign of ick is gone, then for 4 weeks after that to make sure it is completely dead. I just don't know how long can the fish be ok at 1.009 SG? Thanks for everyone's help!

all sounds good the fish will be fine as 1.09 for 6 weeks easily.

uv should not be necessary at all but i don't see it doing any harm. someone will chime in.

remeber on the refractometer it is 14ppt you ar aiming for do water changes as required but make sure to stay at 14ppt as this is vital for the full 6 weeks.

be sure to seturn to high salinity at the end very very slowly.

when the ich is in the tomot stage the free swiming stage it explodes in the low salinity and cannot reinfect the fish that is my understanding of how hypo works.

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

Ahhh ok, makes sense. I knew ick exploded at a low salinity, but didn't know at that stage. So the refractometer will read 14ppt, that is 1.009 SG? I will be checking the SG twice a day, just to be on the safe side. I will be checking PH probably once a day. I'll make up some water that is exactly like the water in my QT tank so it won't effect anything. Probably do a 10g water change every week. So 6 weeks at 14ppt 1.009 SG, sounds good. Tonight I am getting the refractometer and UV sterilizer from another member, hopefully everything will work out well. Thanks for your help.

 

[andrewsmart]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9640152#post9640152 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DamnPepShrimp
Ahhh ok, makes sense. I knew ick exploded at a low salinity, but didn't know at that stage. So the refractometer will read 14ppt, that is 1.009 SG? I will be checking the SG twice a day, just to be on the safe side. I will be checking PH probably once a day. I'll make up some water that is exactly like the water in my QT tank so it won't effect anything. Probably do a 10g water change every week. So 6 weeks at 14ppt 1.009 SG, sounds good. Tonight I am getting the refractometer and UV sterilizer from another member, hopefully everything will work out well. Thanks for your help.

sounds good yes.

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated. I will keep an update.

 

[oct2274]

I've always formalin treated all fish before putting in QT. Then if you have to, continue formalin treatment in QT and make sure to monitor water parameters, doing water changes as necessary. The best part is that formalin doesn't build up and treatment can just be repeated day after day at the same dose.

Here is a link to the formalin i use
http://www.novalek.com/kordon/formalin/index.htm