Another ICH question

[mhosts]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15304904#post15304904 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sergiotx
So what went wrong? I could use a little more advice...

I used a 20 gallon long with heater and canister filter, removed 20 gallons from my main tank, basically did a water change, checked my ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels all read 0, provided an airstone, pvc to hide in and then put my purple tang in and now, less than 24 hours later he's dead....

Kinda disgusted I know these things happen, but could use help so this doesnt happen again....

Did you check ammonia after you found him?

In order to go directly to a QT you will need to have some kind of biological filtration. The best would be to have a small hang-on filter in the sump ready to be moved over to the QT tank in the event that you need to use it.

If you don't have a form of established bio filtration then you will need to do CONSTANT water changes when ammonia levels rise.. 20-50% every 12-24 hours. It depends on how much ammonia the fish is excreting.

 

[sergiotx]

Yes, they read zero last night, this morning and after I found him... I used a caniter filter with a couple of pieces of live rock I pulled from my sump, guess I will buy a small hang-on filter and try that for next time...

 

[1geo]

Did you take water from your infected main tank and use that water for the QT tank? If you did, you put your fish right back into water that was loaded with swimmers and they only have one fish to latch onto.

 

[sergiotx]

That could have been it. I had treated my main tank with Kordon organic Ich-Attach and used a UV sterilizer in my sump prior to moving him for a couple of days......Am currently running carbon and phosban to remove, as well and done a 25% water change...

Will reset up the tank with new water, will run the bio-wheel through my sump for a couple of weeks prior to running in new tank....I definatley want another purple tang, so its worth the effort...

 

[mhosts]

Lost my Tang in the QT today...

He was upside down panting for air. Poor little guy.

 

[1geo]

Do not use anything from the main tank on the QT tank. A filter can contain Ich eggs or possibly Brook swimmers. On your QT tank use a new or used filter you buy off eBay that you put NEW media in, do not use the old stuff. You should only use RO water. Put NOTHING in the QT tank, no sand, gravel, rocks etc. I only put a couple of plastic pipe fittings large enough for the fish to hid in, an air stone, and a heater. Unfortunately the plastic pipes act as food collectors and have to be cleaned every couple of days. Do not put a bio filter on the tank. Just use a fine mesh filter, HOT, to remove uneatten food and fish waste. I clean mine every other day. I also use an Eheim hand vacumn every day to remove uneatten food. If you do this, you will not have a chemical problem. Water changes are a must. So plan on changing 40% per week. If you give formalin baths, your will be replacing 40% anyway since you will use the QT water for the bath water and will be replacing it with new RO water.

 

[mhosts]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15309184#post15309184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 1geo
Do not use anything from the main tank on the QT tank. A filter can contain Ich eggs or possibly Brook swimmers. On your QT tank use a new or used filter you buy off eBay that you put NEW media in, do not use the old stuff. You should only use RO water. Put NOTHING in the QT tank, no sand, gravel, rocks etc. I only put a couple of plastic pipe fittings large enough for the fish to hid in, an air stone, and a heater. Unfortunately the plastic pipes act as food collectors and have to be cleaned every couple of days. Do not put a bio filter on the tank. Just use a fine mesh filter, HOT, to remove uneatten food and fish waste. I clean mine every other day. I also use an Eheim hand vacumn every day to remove uneatten food. If you do this, you will not have a chemical problem. Water changes are a must. So plan on changing 40% per week. If you give formalin baths, your will be replacing 40% anyway since you will use the QT water for the bath water and will be replacing it with new RO water.

I completely understand not using anything from the display tank in order to reduce the amount of "swimmers" in the QT.

But if you are going to medicate or lower salinity to fight ICH adding a sick fish to an un-cycled tank with a brand new filter will cause an ammonia/nitrite spike well before the 1 week period of doing the 40% water change. Especially if it is a tang in a small 20-30g QT.

IMHO, keep the fish in the same water parameters it's used to (This way you don't need to accliamate to the QT water) and reduce the stress by having an already cycled filter.

You can even eliminate the parasites on the fish by doing a FW dip with matching PH and temp. (optional).

The key is getting to the fish earlier than I did. Once they are covered in spots those parasites do a number on the fish.

 

[mhosts]

Unfortunately in my case, tearing apart 100lbs of live rock with around 20 corals wasn't something that I was willing to do. It was the hardest thing I've dealt with so far in this hobby. I loved that fish.

But a $60.00 fish vs. $1000 worth of coral and $600 of rock.

By the time I caught the tang by netting at night with the flashlight and food bait it was too late.

Live and Learn. From now on I know that I must QT everything... Including new corals.

 

[1geo]

In a QT tank there is nothing alive in it except the fish. No live sand, rock, coral, etc. So, there is nothing to cycle. The only thing that will cause ammonia build up is excess food and fish waste. The latter is a minor addition so excess food it the principle cuprit. That is why I vacumn the tank every day and use a HOT fine fabric filter to remove small particles in the water.

 

[mhosts]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15311296#post15311296 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 1geo
In a QT tank there is nothing alive in it except the fish. No live sand, rock, coral, etc. So, there is nothing to cycle. The only thing that will cause ammonia build up is excess food and fish waste. The latter is a minor addition so excess food it the principle cuprit. That is why I vacumn the tank every day and use a HOT fine fabric filter to remove small particles in the water.

Any filter, especially a fine filter will trap detritus. This will start causing nitrifying bacteria to form. If there is no place for nitrifying bacteria to form, ammonia will just keep on rising. Not to mention the fish waste will start dissolving in the water and the particles are very fine. In order to remove these fine particles you'd need a protein skimmer.

If you put a healthy 3" tang in a 20gallon QT you will have toxic ammonia levels in under 3 days. Guaranteed.

 

[1geo]

I have kept a QT tank for four weeks using the procedure I outlined above without any rise in ammonia, nitrates or nitrites. The key was cleaning the filter frequently and vacuuming up any uneaten food each day. So I know this works.

 

[mhosts]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15312677#post15312677 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 1geo
I have kept a QT tank for four weeks using the procedure I outlined above without any rise in ammonia, nitrates or nitrites. The key was cleaning the filter frequently and vacuuming up any uneaten food each day. So I know this works.

What size is your QT?

What fish did you have in it?

 

[1geo]

10 gals, two clownfish.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I almost always use a well-established nitrification biological filter in QT. Cu and hypo will not materially affect nitrification filter.

Cheap test kits may not give you low ammonia readings and even low levels of ammonia will harm your fish, even not obviously.

Not having proper preparation in advance means frustration and inadequate quarantine or treatment.

Water change is no fun and is likely not frequent enough.

You may try Amquel or the like to precipitate ammonia for this time, but in the future properly cycle your QT before getting any fish. Fish should be treated against ick for at least six weeks. Do you want to change water daily for six weeks, at least?

 

[1geo]

First, I use Formalin to treat my fish for both Ich and Brook. Since I am not able to tell which one they have if I get a break out, I threat them with the only chemical that will cure both, i.e., 37% Formalin. I give them 5 baths, one bath every other day. So the longest they need to stay in the QT tank is 10 days. I have left them in it for up to 4 weeks just to get another aquarium up and running. Also, if I buy a new addition, I treat it up front for 10 days but leave it in QT for up to 21 days. When I first started keeping clownfish I did not use a QT tank. After losing five clowns I finally figured out what was killing them and started treating all my fish and new arrives. So far so good, I have not had any out breaks of parasites. As for the water changes, In the first 10 days I will change out 50% of the QT water just giving the baths. After that, I would do a 20% water change every two or three days until I took the clowns out of QT. It works for me.