Another ich situation if you dare to care!

[ssavader]

Well, I have written a couple of threads in the past looking for opinions about QT'ing new tangs that have demonstrated an extensive period of time in the LFS with no signs of ich. The owner of one LFS who is very knowledgeable asked me not to QT my new Powder Brown, explaining that it is too stressful for tangs. He also felt that a even the healthiest of tangs are likely to harbor some ich organisms or be susceptible to infestation- BUT, in a healthy environment, tangs are most likely to recover completely. He said that he had seen more new tangs die in QT, than "healthy" tangs recovering from ich.

Well, my PBT has developed ich (of course) about 4-5 weeks after introduction and this has now spread to my Mimic Ebili Tang- the other 8 fish in the tank (no other tangs) are not infected. Both tangs continue to eat well and behave normally (normal swimming pattern, not scratching on tank bottom, no increased respirations, no secondary infections, etc.).

So, how would you proceed? No need to lambast me over not QT'ing the PBT- after 2 years in the salt water hobby and 5 years with cichlids, I'm still learning!

 

[SaltyMember]

The ideal (which you might know already) would be to remove all the fish to a treatment tank(s) and treat with copper or hyposalinity leaving the display tank fallow for 4-6 weeks.

With 8 fish I would imagine it would be difficult to accomodate them in treatment tanks, but do it if it is possible.

Is your tank a reef or fish only? If it's a fish only with no inverts you could do hyposalinity treatment in the display tank. If it's a reef and you can't remove the fish for treatment you could try one of the supposedly reef-safe ich treatments available and feed your fish with garlic supplement and hope they are able to fight off the infestation. JMO

 

[maroun.c]

I've seen many established fish recover from ich in a healthy tank environment without any treatment, I wouldn't bet on it but it's always possible. If treating them is possible then of course it's the safest method.

 

[package]

ssavader,

Since you said "how would you proceed" and as salty member mentioned the best route is to remove all of the fish, etc............... which is not likely (due to the number of fish). Then what to do?

No one will argue that hypo and/or copper will work if you can treat the tank and that QT is the best direction.

If you feel the PBrT was in QT well enough before you introduced it, the ICH is (or was already) perhaps in your tank. I found myself in that situation when I transferred a Hippo tang from 1 tank to another.

If the PBrT is NOT getting harassed by any other fish in the tank, I 'personally' would go online and get a bottle of No Sick Fish and treat for about 10 days. I have ICH in my display now (probably) it is not on any fish that I can see. I have it in there because I was/am in a similar situation as you - could not remove all of the fish. I am not saying that the Ick Kicks or the No Sick Fish remedies work 100% but I do think that they work well enough to help the fish overcome the parasite themselves. I do not know if they kill the free swimming or nesting type or what but I think they do something that breaks the life cycle enough that a healthy fish can get back on it's feet again so to speak. This is my opinion only so take it as much. Some may say these treatments do nothing and in both of my situations the fish would have overcome the ICH themselves - I do not agree with that in my situation it was getting progressively worse. I think once it passes the few white spots stage there is no turning back without hypo or copper treatments - again an opinion.

Perhaps not proven, perhaps a snake oil and definitely advice from a guy who is also still learning and has and has had ICH issues that being a bit smarter or utilizing better habits such as QT would have likely eliminated (so perhaps I am not the best source).

Another direction is to let it ride. You may lose 2 fish, you may lose more or they may fight it off. If there is a fish in the tank that is harassing the PBrT (such as the other tang) it is unlikely in my opinion that it will fight off the parasite. You may also consider moving the rockwork around a bit. (I read) Fish tend to sleep in the same spots and if the ICH falls off of them in that spot in the tank, the next generation jump back if the fish is in that same area.

Tough decision and for sure good luck to you. I know it sucks to be in that situation.

 

[Coral C's]

Ok, I have some question's too about ich on a powder brown tang. Just purchased three days ago, from a not so clean LFS so I decided to set up a QT tank. No Ich was present when I bought it but I had heard they are very easily spooked and will get ich at the drop of a hat. Didn't want to take any chances. the 2nd day he developed ich pretty bad. I treaded with copper and today was to be the 2nd treatment but he looks great again. Do I still treat or just leave it for a few more days? Also, I have heard several opinions about not wasting time with QT because they will just get ich again when transfered to the new tank? So am I wasting my time or not?

 

[fittiger]

I had this happen when I introduced a yellow scopas. The scopas recovered but my two favorite fish, Centropyge's, ended up getting sicker than the scopas and died.

I recommend removing all fish asap and doing a hypo treatment if you want them all to live.

 

[ssavader]

Great thoughts, guys. Thanks for all your responses. Unfortunately I have to leave town tomorrow on a family vacation for one week. So by necessity, I will first be trying to leave mother nature to her own course. I will reassess things when I get back and let you know what has occurred.

By the way, Maroun.c, are you in Lebanon, Indiana or the country of Lebanon? If the later, I hope you have been safe with all the trouble there the last 2 years.

 

[bermuda reefer]

ich sucks

ich sucks

Well who has the answers, no one knows!!!
I have never been able to keep/ introduce a tang of any type without loosing them to the ich.
I see fish in the LFS happily swimming arround and eating and bring them home
and you can count 1,2,3 and bang there you go again....None of my other fish ever seem to even pick up one spot, and i can go months without adding anything
to the tank so the tangs must harbour this parasite. I caught a juvenile blue tang
two weeks ago (in half blue stage) and had him in my tank within an hour.
He swims, eats virocously and scratches, as every morning he is covered with spots, have been using the chem marin pepper treatment and seems to help, the spots
are gone soon after the lights go on but have returned every morning for a week
he is looking a little worse for wear but still swimming and eating. There seems to be no spots this morning!!!!
The last tang i put in was a sailfin and he was happy swimming and eating for 2 days
then white spots on the 3rd day and dead on the 4th, makes you want to scream.
So does QT work or stress them more, i see all these photos of tanks with tangs swimming around andi get depressed.
Reefer.

 

[flameangel88]

TWo years ago when my tangs got ich I soaked food and nori with vita-chem and garlic guard twice a day and administered Chem-marin Stop Parasite with no ill effect to the corals and inverts. The direction for Stop Parasite states for 5 days but twice I found 8-9 days before doing a WC worked the best. Unfortunately you'll be away otherwise I would say feed heavy with vita-chem/selcon and NLS pellet for a couple of days to see if there's any improvement before treating with medication.

 

[limitdown]

If you don't have too many corals, you can consider moving those to a QT/smaller tank so that you can do hypo in the DT for your fish.

 

[bandr1002]

what is NLS pellet?? i too have run into this prob, i had been to the LFS and got a kole tang that my buddy had on hold for about 2 months, one week later..... ICH!! now i have been soaking my food in garlic gaurd, and i do use selcon. but, i have no qt, and too much coral to use copper, this is the first i have heard of NLS pellets... are they just food dipped in garlic, also, am i waisting my time getting kick ich. last night i noticed my solar fairy wrasse has spots as well... just my luck, my two fav fish have it but no sign elsewhere....

 

[Paul B]

Well who has the answers, no one knows!!!

I hate to say it and I diden't want to get involved in this thread but that quote is correct.
It is correct because all tanks are different. I have not quaranteened in about 30 years and have not had a problem but for the first 10 years or so, I would just have to look at a fish with ich at an LFS and my fish would all die from ich.
My only advice is (and I hate to give advice on this) is to quarantine everything. For some reason, if your tank lasts a few years. like 10, then for some reason, ich is no longer a problem. I don't know why and neither does anyone else even they thing they do. Ich has been studied as long as the common cold and we know everything about it's life cycle. We even know it's social secutity number but no one knows why after many years it is no longer a problem. It is also the easiest disease to cure.
You need to keep the fish in breeding condition with almost all live food and no stress. Don't forget, fish in a tank are always stressed, they are held captive and they know it. They are in very shallow water with no sunlight and they also know that. They also have tank mates that usually do not associate with them and they are aware of that too.
Eventually with luck and time, your fish may become immune but for now you need to quarantine everything.
Good luck,
Paul

 

[fittiger]

NLS = New Life Spectrum, its a high quality fish food brand

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12832618#post12832618 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flameangel88
TWo years ago when my tangs got ich I soaked food and nori with vita-chem and garlic guard twice a day and administered Chem-marin Stop Parasite with no ill effect to the corals and inverts. The direction for Stop Parasite states for 5 days but twice I found 8-9 days before doing a WC worked the best. Unfortunately you'll be away otherwise I would say feed heavy with vita-chem/selcon and NLS pellet for a couple of days to see if there's any improvement before treating with medication.

flameangel88 - what made you decide to go FOWLR?

 

[bandr1002]

new life spectrum, is that better than frozen foods soaked in garlic, or should i keep up what i am already doing??

 

[flameangel88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12859323#post12859323 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fittiger
NLS = New Life Spectrum, its a high quality fish food brand



flameangel88 - what made you decide to go FOWLR?

The pair of semilarvatus. I love a tank with angels and butterflies. You can't trust most angels anyway so I got a pair of semis and they clean out all the corals in a couple of days.

Since adding the pair of semis I've added burgess and declivis. Would like to add 2 more butterflies but that will have to wait till the next upgrade.

 

[bandr1002]

one more ???. and then i believe i will be done.....

would the purchase of a UV sterilizer stop the life cycle of iche? cause i am going to get one, i just dont want my hopes to be to high..

 

[fittiger]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12860164#post12860164 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flameangel88
The pair of semilarvatus. I love a tank with angels and butterflies. You can't trust most angels anyway so I got a pair of semis and they clean out all the corals in a couple of days.

Since adding the pair of semis I've added burgess and declivis. Would like to add 2 more butterflies but that will have to wait till the next upgrade.

I'm considering it, but I have so much invested in corals. Angels really are my favorite fish and I love a few of the butterfly's as well. I even bought a 1.5" semi and put him in there hoping he would leave my corals alone, but after one day he was terrorizing my sps polyps so I sold him on. I had a beautiful potters angel (1.5 yrs) that died due to an ich outbreak when I added a tang. I will probably never have tangs again, 2nd time this has happened to an angel that was established. I think if and when I upgrade from my 75, I will do an angel/bf tank. I love yours by the way. Other than the outrageously expensive few (interruptus and debelius) the lemonpeel is actually my favorite (dwarf at least); do you think these could be kept in a trio/pair? I've even tried 3 (separate times) of these in my reef hoping I'd find one that wouldn't bother my coral, but no luck.

 

[flameangel88]

OP: Sorry for the hijack.

That's hard to say. You never know if it will work or not till you tried. But it's important to have a back up plan in place IF things don't work out you can goto Plan B. There are many things you can do to help the situation such as getting a divider/eggcrate for them to get used to each other and to see the level of aggression. Or putting them in separate tanks that are right next to each other.

If Jaken didn't try putting a Flame harem together then I would never have try it myself. The success level is going to be different due to different setups. Right now I'm working on a pair of angels and only time will tell if this is going to work or not.