Another lesson learned

[scuzy]

So I was not ready to finish my hidden hospital tank stand but picked up a paired cardinals from a reefer gettin out of the hobby. Said he qt his fish so I trusted him. Bad idea don't trust no on. Ended up taking all my fish out of the new 210 to qt for cupramine and leaving my display fallow for 10 weeks. Sigh back to waiting again.

My qt setup being finish

My make shift qt I got off a reefer 100gallon

I will be monitoring the water parameters since it's a quick makeshift system and be doing 10-20% water hanged to keep ammonia low.

 

[Allmost]

doesnt the QT being upside down stress the fish ?

I feel your pain though .... lucky you didnt loose any fish ....

 

[scuzy]

doesnt the QT being upside down stress the fish ?

I feel your pain though .... lucky you didnt loose any fish ....

Not sure why tapatalk inverts some of my pictures

 

[humaguy]

doesnt the QT being upside down stress the fish ?

I feel your pain though .... lucky you didnt loose any fish ....

lol...thanks for the laugh...

Yeah, so true, you can't trust any source...
dd, the best in the business, tells usto qt all livestock even after their qt procedure....

good luck...

 

[wooden_reefer]

Insisting on eradication of ich at this point likely will kill many of your fish.

I'd accept treating just symtoms only while I cycle robustly.

Plus this look like a FO tank.

I think your approach at this point is incorrect, not realistic.

I will just make sure my fish will not die for the next three weeks while I cycle quickly and robustly in a separate container, quicker using a wet-dry setup, which can be as little as 20 days.

Treat peridcally to prevent death from ich, not eradication, while you cycle as quickly and robustly as possible. This is my suggestion.

 

[scuzy]

It is a fo qt not a fo tank. My DT is not whats pictures. I rather irradiate than ever have that pest in my system again. I lost many battles to ich before in started quarantining. This is the first time my quarantine setup was no finish after upgrading to the new 210 and I was too trusting of fellow reefers.

 

[wooden_reefer]

It is a fo qt not a fo tank. My DT is not whats pictures. I rather irradiate than ever have that pest in my system again. I lost many battles to ich before in started quarantining. This is the first time my quarantine setup was no finish after upgrading to the new 210 and I was too trusting of fellow reefers.

Without a robustly cycled medium in QT and with so many big fish, you are in too bad a position to eradicate ich now. Your fish will suffer from ammonia more than with ich. Just because most don't die now does not imply that they are not fundamentally weakened by ammonia.

Ich is NOT immediately fatal as long as you treat in a timely fashion.

There is a time for any procedure; erdication of ich is not well timed here.

Cycling is very easy but takes time.

After a few days of treatment in QT, put them back into the ich infested DT. You may have to do this two or three times while the medium cycles.
Or you may do a 100% WC in QT, do without any copper, and use Amquel or Prime for a few days and then put the fish back into the DT, while you wait for the cycle to complete in a separate container. This is what I would do.

Do not use cheleated copper with Prime or Amquel.

 

[Allmost]

Without a robustly cycled medium in QT and with so many big fish, you are in too bad a position to eradicate ich now. Your fish will suffer from ammonia more than with ich. Just because most don't die now does not imply that they are not fundamentally weakened by ammonia.

Ich is NOT immediately fatal as long as you treat in a timely fashion.

There is a time for any procedure; erdication of ich is not well timed here.

Cycling is very easy but takes time.

After a few days of treatment in QT, put them back into the ich infested DT. You may have to do this two or three times while the medium cycles. This is what I would do.

your post is very confrontational, yet the OP didnt tell us anything about his set up ! so why are you assuming and bashing instead of providing help ?

I see a HOB filter on the QT, and there are other ways of removing ammonia. WC and ammonia removers

OP is taking the right action removing fish from display to QT them to get rid of ICH.

your post shows you have never done a proper QT, or you would have known that ICH treatment kills the bacteria so if you even put live rock in there, it will DIE after ich treatment

your last line makes me laugh and shows me you have no Idea what you are saying with this regards :
"After a few days of treatment in QT, put them back into the ich infested DT. You may have to do this two or three times while the medium cycles. This is what I would do."

WHAT ?! LOL hahaah

 

[scuzy]

My understanding was with cupramine all beneficial bacteria does anyways reason why u am doing 10-20% water change to keep it down. I said I will be keepin an eye on the ammonia level and plan to do some water changes daily. Unless I am not doing it right ?

 

[Allmost]

get an ammonia alert,

and have some ammonia remover on hand,

add ammonia remover as needed to keep it very low.

ammo lock is a good one, Prime is another. AmQuel is the best. JMHO.

 

[scuzy]

The qt has a ammo badge and I took 100% water from display tank to the qt setup. Will be doing a bit of water change tonight then start my 2 week cupramine treatment.

 

[Allmost]

I took 100% water from display tank to the qt setup.

BAD Idea.


read the sticky about QT on the treatment forums.

 

[wooden_reefer]

your post is very confrontational, yet the OP didnt tell us anything about his set up ! so why are you assuming and bashing instead of providing help ?

I see a HOB filter on the QT, and there are other ways of removing ammonia. WC and ammonia removers

OP is taking the right action removing fish from display to QT them to get rid of ICH.

your post shows you have never done a proper QT, or you would have known that ICH treatment kills the bacteria so if you even put live rock in there, it will DIE after ich treatment

your last line makes me laugh and shows me you have no Idea what you are saying with this regards :
"After a few days of treatment in QT, put them back into the ich infested DT. You may have to do this two or three times while the medium cycles. This is what I would do."

WHAT ?! LOL hahaah

Please:

I am not confrontational.

First, the sequence of event tells me that he does not have cycled medium in QT.

Second, I have done this for more than 30 years.

Third, please do not complicate matters by saying nonsense like treatment of ich harms nitrification bacteria. Long time ago, like 35 years ago, a LFS told me that, and such nonsense had caused more a couple of years of hardship.
Neither hypo nor copper has any material impact on nitrification bacteria.

Fourth, by looking at the size and the number of fish in the QT, I can immediately tell that ammonia is going to be the critical factor.

Fifth, please do not underestimate the impact of Prime or Amquel on cheleated copper. Your fish could turn sideway.

 

[Allmost]

Please:

I am not confrontational.

First, the sequence of event tells me that he does not have cycled medium in QT.

Second, I have done this for more than 30 years.

Third, please do not complicate matters by saying nonsense like treatment of ich harms nitrification bacteria. Long time ago, like 35 years ago, a LFS told me that, and such nonsense had caused more a couple of years of hardship.
Neither hypo nor copper has any material impact on nitrification bacteria.

Fourth, by looking at the size and teh number of fish in the QT, I can immediately tell that ammonia is going to be the critical factor.

Fifth, please do not underestimate the impact of Prime or Amquel on cheleated copper. You fish could turn sideway.

so you use copper in your tanks with live rock ? and bacteria do fine ? I dont think so

I agree with the prime + copper being lethal though.

if it was me in his case, Id do tank transfer. but that different.

 

[scuzy]

Wait I though 1st start the qt tank wih water from display then change water with new salt water made to lower ammonia? Is that not correct?

 

[wooden_reefer]

Wait I though 1st start the qt tank wih water from display then change water with new salt water made to lower ammonia? Is that not correct?

Nitrification bacteria grow certainly but also certainly slowly. You are cycling with the fish in QT. Is this not correct? Not Easy conclusion!

Eradication of ich takes at least six weeks, although I go twice as long.

What are you going to do this coming six weeks at least, eight weeks better?

Plus, this is a case of manifestation already happened. You have to consider the fallow period in DT of at least ten weeks. So you have to keep the fish well for 10 weeks if your aim now is eradication. This is mission impossible I'd say.

Your aim now can only be to keep the fish alive while you as quickly as possible cycle robustly in a separate container for eradication in the next round.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Wait I though 1st start the qt tank wih water from display then change water with new salt water made to lower ammonia? Is that not correct?

This is correct but you should have done so four to five weeks ago, with ammonia pulses in between.

 

[wooden_reefer]

so you use copper in your tanks with live rock ? and bacteria do fine ? I dont think so

I agree with the prime + copper being lethal though.

if it was me in his case, Id do tank transfer. but that different.

I do not use LR in QT period. I am telling you now that copper in doses that do not kill fish or hypo will NOT harm nitrification bacteria. Please refrain from strong opinion if you do not know this very basic fact. This ignorance will cause very bad hesitation.

TT without cycled medium will do VERY poorly here because an infestation has already happened in DT. The fact is that you have to wait for fallow period of 10 or more weeks to expire if you do not want to treat the DT directly. You have to keep the fish well for at least ten weeks without cycled medium. This will be a nightmare for this OP.

If this is a commited FOWLR tank never going to have inverts sensitive to copper, it is not necessarily unwise to treat the DT with straight unchelated copper that will precipitate out. Some inverts like crabs (later re-introduced) will still do well with a liittle copper deposited on the LR. If the fish are all in a QT, the ammonia generated by decay of lives on the LR will not harm the fish. In just two weeks the ammonia from decay will be gone. This is a choice, but I think even this will be a bad choice by looking at the number and size of fish he has.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Straight uncheleated copper is called for here, I tend to think.

This is because straight copper cannot be made more active by Amquel or Prime.

You can use straight copper to 0.25 ppm for a few days. If you have calcarous material in QT, you may have to add more in QT. After ich is no longer acute in QT, you can stop adding straight copper and use Prime or Amquel.

This is the most doable.

You cycle as quickly as possible in a separate container to be used in the next round for eradication, but prevent death due to ich in QT.

Bacterial infection may not be as great a concern if all your fish have been exposed to the same microbes for months, and hopefully the new additions have not brought virulent strains of pathogenic bacteria into your system. Otherwise, UV ....

 

[scuzy]

My plan of attack is cupramine for 2 weeks while I do 20% daily water changers until 2 weeks has pass and I will remove all copper with coprisorb and carbon, then use amquel until fi

Display tank is ready for fish reintroduction after 10 weeks.