Another new clam.(Maxima)

[critterkeeper]

Some (a few) croceas also have elongated shells, and some maximas have short ones, too.

Look at the 3rd pic here:
http://www.picsbase.com/james/default.asp?catID=293&offset=-1

And the bottom pic here:
http://www.picsbase.com/james/default.asp?catID=293&offset=15

Both are maximas. The shell is from a maxima that I ate in Okinawa (I kept the shell), and if you look close at the second pic, you can see that it's a teardrop max. These are unusual, but real enough...

 

[jmaneyapanda]

do you have any photos of croceas with squat, oblong shells like that? I have only ever seen this in maximas and squamosa, but never in croceas. granted, i may not have seen as many clams as you.

So whta is your determining it is a crocea? shell of a max, mantle of a crocea- i'll rely on the shell. of course, its possible its a hybrid, but thata another ball of wax.

 

[jbittner]

Where is Barry when you need him?

 

[critterkeeper]

I do have a couple of pictures of elongated croceas that you'd really think were maxes, but I can't seem to find them (I have something like 12,000 digital photos on my external harddrive). If I can find them, I'll load them on my photo site. Very uncommon, but there still out there...

I'd say the shell length and byssal openings are good indicators about 99% of the time, but then an oddball shows up. If you didn't notice, at first I thought it was a max too, but then changed my mind after seeing the pic I have of a well-scuted crocea on a clam farm that has the same coloration, as well.

Certainly a tough one...

BTW - while I was working on my book I asked a whole lot of people about hybrids and did a thorough search of the literature out there - and never found any evidence that hybrids exist. That still doesn't mean they don't, but nobody has proved it, or intentionally created any at farms. You'd think if it was possible a farm would definitely do it on purpose in order to have something new on the market. Know what I mean?

 

[jmaneyapanda]

critter- i agree. there will always be the anomolous specimens which defy the rules. I guess my question is, why do you think this is the anomolous crocea? the odds lean far more towrds the maxima, but your have changed your mind. Why? (This is just to satiate my curiosity, nothing more). We agree that shell structure is good way to speciate a vast vast majority of the time, and mantle color far less, so I am curious what is pushing you to the other side of the fence- aside from the fact that "wierd ones are out there".

I also agree about intentional hybridization. I have had a war on the reef fishes catergory about an intentional unnatural hybridization for profit, and i have heard every side of that argument. I agree, people will try to do so. However, I think commercial clam farmer will not because it is not cost effective to prove it is possible. For these communal breeders, why pair off two seperate specific individuals to prove or disprove hybridization? Potential profit, sure, but you would be wasting potential profit by not doing so. Instead, just produce as many as possible to keep profit margins as high as possible. but this is not an economic discussion, right?

 

[critterkeeper]

Did you take a good look at that pic that I put the link for further up the page? I think that's about as close to identical as you can get. It even has full rows of scutes and looks like it could be a little elongated. Really, if I could see the clam in question rather than look at pics it would probably be a lot easier. Oh well...

I (politely) disagree with you on the farms and hybrids though. Most of these are large scale operations that bred several species in the thousands. Bascially when it comes to spawning, they pull out specimens and give them a shot of seratonin to make them spawn in a bucket where they can collect the sperm, then they move them to another bucket when the eggs start coming out. Once done, they mix the sperm from one clam with the eggs of another in another container. So, it would require no extra effort to collect the sperm from one species and mix it with the eggs from another - then have something cool looking to sell that nobody else is offering. Make sense?

 

[jmaneyapanda]

Well, I have just learned something new. That last literature I have read on clam farming made no mention of collection of indivudal gametes for combination with another indivudal gametes. It was all just described as a big hodge podge. It is dated material, so I shouldnt known better that techniques had changed. But Is till think the farmers would consider it a economical risk- as it is yet unproven. They can create a proven product by breeding the true species, or potentially thrown away a spawn by trying a hybridization. But, you would know this better than me, and have never visited a clam farm first hand.

Regarding the ID, I must also, still (politely) disagree. Yes, that photo looks somehwat similar. I dont think the shell is near as oblong as the clam in question, but thats unknown to you or I who cant see it firsthand, and it is rather besides the point, also. I sure you can also find a Maxima clam that looks like this, too. Does that mean its a maxima? Not necessarily. Heck, you might even have a picture of a squamosa that looks like this. You get my point. While I agree there may be croceas out there like this, what I see In THIS CLAM leads me to think its a maxima. But, of course, I cant be sure any more than anyone else is.