any in tank aefw treatment for just acros, no fish/inverts

[codydemmel4]

So right now, I am not sure if the poor PE on a lot of my acros are from the angelfish I had in my tank (they are removed now as i saw them eating/nipping the tips) or if it is from AEFW. I dipped multiple of the frags/mini colinies that i thought could have AEFW but i did not see anything close to as big as the pictures I have seen. I do see marks on my corals but not sure if it is AEFW.

However, I am starting a 8 foot FLOWR that I am willing to transfer all the fish from my current tank over to that and have nothing, absolutely nothing but acros and liverock in my current tank. Does anyone know of a dip/solution I can use? so I do not have to take every coral off and dip it. I am not positive I have AEFW but I just took the angelfish out of my tank and not going to make any decisions till next week regarding that but want to get ahead of it if in fact it is AEFW.

I inspected multiple corals with a magnify glass and didnt see anything that looked close to AEFW or eggs but worried how I loss PE all of a sudden (mostly to the angelfish which is why I am getting rid of them) but still worried about other outcomes! Any suggestions are very welcomes

 

[Captain smoke]

Sorry to hear that you think you have AEFW. Last year I got AEFW in my display tank. I can't think of anyway to kill them with out taking each one off the LR and dip them with out doing a massive WC after each treatment. This is how I beat them

Marked on a calendar what day I found one. ( marked as day 1)

started a frag tank
-removed each SPS from the LR and killed what what growth encrusted and glued each sps to a frag plug.
- dipped each coral in Coral RX for 5min to see what came off, then Bayer for 5min
-Inspected each coral top to bottom for eggs, or what looked abnormal with loupe 10x glasses and a dental pick. scrape off any eggs or tissue that looks affected.
-repeat ever 4-5 days, after 2 weeks I just used Bayer since the AEFW were to small to really ID.
-You will hate it but cut off anything that looks infected. ( I had some really beautiful Milli colony that was just aww in site. Now its 3 mini colonies.
-QT and dipped ever 5days for 8 weeks, I personally waited 10 weeks with the last week a good close up inspection.

Here is all the research I found on AEFW. Taken from a Letter written from a biologist name Kate to a reefing forum

Hello and happy holidays to you all.
It’s almost been a year since we raised the funds to start the AEFW research project and we want to give you a summary of our progress to date.
Last fall Cat established a dedicated AEFW research tank. The funds raised from the crowd source funding have allowed her to keep this tank going, to set up a second tank with a second population of AEFW, and enabled me to visit Cat for a week in April.
We are using these populations of AEFW firstly to understand their life cycle in aquaria in order to develop a protocol for their control, and secondly to look for vulnerable developmental stages that can be targeted.
Here is a summary of our results to date:
How long does it take for eggs to hatch? 11-14 days @ 27C (n = 4 egg batches)
Do they hatch as larvae or juveniles? some hatch as larvae others as juveniles
How long does it take for the worms to reach sexual maturity? Adults start laying eggs at ~ 4mm in length, we don’t know yet how long it takes them to reach that size, probably dependent on food supply.
How long can newly hatched worms survive without food? 24 hours
How long can adults survive without food? 6 - 15 days depending on size, larger individuals survive for longer.
We suffered a set-back this fall with a bacterial infection that killed off the corals. Cat has started the tanks again from scratch and is currently sourcing new Acroporas to put in. We will repeat these hatching timing and starvation experiments again soon using different populations of AEFW. These new experiments will allow us to assess the natural variation in AEFW growth and development.
Keep tuning in next year as we get up and running again, and we’ll bring in more data to demystify this pest!
Kate and Cat

I forgot to add, Coral RX didn't seam to kill the AEFW but more stun them so when I hit the coral with my turkey baster they fell off but some of the larger ones lived. Use Bayer it killed them instantly

 

[codydemmel4]

Sorry to hear that you think you have AEFW. Last year I got AEFW in my display tank. I can't think of anyway to kill them with out taking each one off the LR and dip them with out doing a massive WC after each treatment. This is how I beat them

Marked on a calendar what day I found one. ( marked as day 1)

started a frag tank
-removed each SPS from the LR and killed what what growth encrusted and glued each sps to a frag plug.
- dipped each coral in Coral RX for 5min to see what came off, then Bayer for 5min
-Inspected each coral top to bottom for eggs, or what looked abnormal with loupe 10x glasses and a dental pick. scrape off any eggs or tissue that looks affected.
-repeat ever 4-5 days, after 2 weeks I just used Bayer since the AEFW were to small to really ID.
-You will hate it but cut off anything that looks infected. ( I had some really beautiful Milli colony that was just aww in site. Now its 3 mini colonies.
-QT and dipped ever 5days for 8 weeks, I personally waited 10 weeks with the last week a good close up inspection.

Here is all the research I found on AEFW. Taken from a Letter written from a biologist name Kate to a reefing forum

Hello and happy holidays to you all.
It's almost been a year since we raised the funds to start the AEFW research project and we want to give you a summary of our progress to date.
Last fall Cat established a dedicated AEFW research tank. The funds raised from the crowd source funding have allowed her to keep this tank going, to set up a second tank with a second population of AEFW, and enabled me to visit Cat for a week in April.
We are using these populations of AEFW firstly to understand their life cycle in aquaria in order to develop a protocol for their control, and secondly to look for vulnerable developmental stages that can be targeted.
Here is a summary of our results to date:
How long does it take for eggs to hatch? 11-14 days @ 27C (n = 4 egg batches)
Do they hatch as larvae or juveniles? some hatch as larvae others as juveniles
How long does it take for the worms to reach sexual maturity? Adults start laying eggs at ~ 4mm in length, we don't know yet how long it takes them to reach that size, probably dependent on food supply.
How long can newly hatched worms survive without food? 24 hours
How long can adults survive without food? 6 - 15 days depending on size, larger individuals survive for longer.
We suffered a set-back this fall with a bacterial infection that killed off the corals. Cat has started the tanks again from scratch and is currently sourcing new Acroporas to put in. We will repeat these hatching timing and starvation experiments again soon using different populations of AEFW. These new experiments will allow us to assess the natural variation in AEFW growth and development.
Keep tuning in next year as we get up and running again, and we'll bring in more data to demystify this pest!
Kate and Cat

I forgot to add, Coral RX didn't seam to kill the AEFW but more stun them so when I hit the coral with my turkey baster they fell off but some of the larger ones lived. Use Bayer it killed them instantly

Thank you!! I really appreciate this write up. This is what I am going to do till I can find a hopeful in tank treatment that I can use since next week I will have nothing in the tank besides the SPS, no snails,crabs or fish.

 

[Captain smoke]

I've been thinking of a in tank treatment. I have a RX from a exotic pet vet for red bugs called Lufenuron in my medicine cabinet. Its better than Interceptor and Lufenuron comes in pill forms that they made for 150 gallons. I was told it works by killing insects that Lay eggs and it also kills the eggs by breaking down the proteins in the egg sacks. Will it work on AEFW? I don't know... I just asked the fish/reef vet for some ( incase) I ever had red bugs and this is what they gave me. She said she's a avid reefer and used it many times in peoples tanks with great results. You might be a excellent test subject. That exotic vet was in Skokie Illinois.

Also in my frag tank I put in a Blue Springer Damsel. Some suggest a yellow wrasse but my frag tank is small 2x2x10 and I couldnt put a wrasse in that needs LR/Sand and 30g minimum in a BB 20g. The Springer Damsels are known to eat them, and I personal seen mine picking at corals and eating what I blew off. plus it was only 6$

 

[jda]

With a tank like yours with mostly frags on plugs still, just pop them off and treat in a hospital tank while your display goes fallow for a while. This will be the best.

 

[Captain smoke]

With a tank like yours with mostly frags on plugs still, just pop them off and treat in a hospital tank while your display goes fallow for a while. This will be the best.

I agree, I personally would not dump a gal of Bayer in the DT or Coral RX.

 

[jda]

Peppermint shrimp, acro crabs, arrow crabs, most wrasses and damsels will quite voraciously eat them. They really get to be a problem when they can hide deep inside of large colonies.

You seem to have a new idea or plan nearly every day. Just chill out for a bit and figure out what is really going on. If you have AEFW, they will turkey baste off with relative ease and you can see the white POSes floating around the water.

 

[Piper27]

I find it easier to pull them from the display for each dip and put them back in the display. Unless you have a separate tank that's mature.

Cody the worms are so hard to see unless you dip a coral and look in the bucket, or use a turkey baster to blow off every acro. Just looking for them with your eyes doesn't work well unless your experienced at finding them. Same with the eggs unless they are laid right on the acro skeleton they are easier to see.

 

[tmc1313]

Can't help you on an in tank treatment, but from what you've stated it sounds like it won't be your problem anyway. My bet is on the angels. Some people can keep them, I've never been able to personally. I've tried and gotten results similar to yours. They were always very sneaky about it to. They never did just sit there and pick. They were always quick hitters. Swim by, pick, and move on. I never have fed heavily, so that's probably part of my problem. I just stay away from angels now. GL and your tank is looking good.:thumbsup:

 

[codydemmel4]

Thanks everyone.

I am going to dip some of the pieces tonight where I think there is possible AEFW. I used a 7x magnify on the acros and saw some spots where I thought were bite marks but saw no AEFW. The reason I think this is AEFW and not from the Angel is because it's below the branches where typically AEFW is from what I read.

How do you guys see them when you dip? Every time I've dipped in Bayer it's so cloudy white that I can't tell anything apart.

Also for the angels, they are out of my tank. Sold the regal and housing the emporer in my sump till I set up the 8 foot FLOWR next week.

I did add some wrasses because my LFS had a 25% off all livestock and I liked how they swim around. Well now there is an added bonus that they MAY get some AEFW. I saw some people saying their AEFW is 1/4 of an inch or 4mm, etc. I know for 100% I have none even close that big. My params have been steady for awhile at 8 alk 420 calc 0.02-0.1 phosphates and trying to keep my nitrates off 0 and between 2-5.

I am going to dip tonight and if y'all can give me an idea on how to make the dip water not so blurry I will try to get some pictures and hopefully have a better idea if I have them or not.

I baste my corals every other day before I ever thought I had AEFW. Only reason I don't wanna set up a hospital tank is there is around 80 frags in my tank and I don't have a light or tank big enough to do that. Right now I am leaning to just dipping any frags that I think could possibly have them and go from there. Leave all the fish in this tank besides the emporer and see what happens after 2-3 weeks. JDA is right and I need to chill out and be patient haha. Just not easy when obviously we have a decent amount of money in our systems and the main part (SPS) I'm scared have a deadly bug.

 

[codydemmel4]

Guess I will just have to buy a lot more IC gel since I will be popping off the corals every week or every 4-5 days to dip them and then I'll have to glue them back since the flow in my tank is so strong along with snails knocking them over

 

[Captain smoke]

If you set on using your 180, Id pop off all the sps and put them on frag plugs. Also AEFW can get under the flesh and live between the plug and the coral. Id by or make frag rack so its easy to move them and they won't get knocked over. Hard part about this is, you really need to have your LR free of AEFW.

Dipping the corals then putting them back in with un-dipped LR doesn't really work. You really need to stave out the worms in the DT. Ive seen this attempted in my buddies tank after I beat them. I told him to build a QT frag tank and he did not listen and tried the in tank treatment and it didn't work. He has a 180g LPS and softies now.

AEFW live on the base and work up the colony, during the day they'll hide away from light and eat the underside of the coral.

 

[reef80]

Here is what I would do if I had no qt tank. Get some frag racks that will hold all your frags and also fit your display. Buy 2x large plastic trays or bins at Target (one for dipping and one for rinsing) Wait 2-3hours after lights out to dip your sps (they feed during this time). You want to take out the whole frag racks and dip that into the tray and then the other to rinse it. I may even swap out a frag rack out every time I dip so new frag racks is replace each and every time. Do this 1x a week for 6 week and you be good. It worked for me and I also had black bugs which make aefw look like a walk in the park...this will save you some time vs taking frags out one by one to dip and also gets rid of any that may just be on the racks. I dont hink think they hang out too far from their food source so I wouldn'tbe too worry about any others on your rock...GL!

 

[codydemmel4]

If you set on using your 180, Id pop off all the sps and put them on frag plugs. Also AEFW can get under the flesh and live between the plug and the coral. Id by or make frag rack so its easy to move them and they won't get knocked over. Hard part about this is, you really need to have your LR free of AEFW.

Dipping the corals then putting them back in with un-dipped LR doesn't really work. You really need to stave out the worms in the DT. Ive seen this attempted in my buddies tank after I beat them. I told him to build a QT frag tank and he did not listen and tried the in tank treatment and it didn't work. He has a 180g LPS and softies now.

AEFW live on the base and work up the colony, during the day they'll hide away from light and eat the underside of the coral.

I thought they could only live on acropora?? How do they live on the live rock?

Also my marks are nowhere even close to that big. I can't see them with the. Asked eye, only with a 7x microscope and they still look nowhere as big as that attachment.

 

[codydemmel4]

Here is what I would do if I had no qt tank. Get some frag racks that will hold all your frags and also fit your display. Buy 2x large plastic trays or bins at Target (one for dipping and one for rinsing) Wait 2-3hours after lights out to dip your sps (they feed during this time). You want to take out the whole frag racks and dip that into the tray and then the other to rinse it. I may even swap out a frag rack out every time I dip so new frag racks is replace each and every time. Do this 1x a week for 6 week and you be good. It worked for me and I also had black bugs which make aefw look like a walk in the park...this will save you some time vs taking frags out one by one to dip and also gets rid of any that may just be on the racks. I dont hink think they hang out too far from their food source so I wouldn'tbe too worry about any others on your rock...GL!

This is a very good idea.

Thank you!

 

[Captain smoke]

They travel


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pife]

There is a write up of how a friend of mine killed them in tank. I'll dig it up and post it here.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2615231

 

[Piper27]

I haven't seen aefw travel far from the base of a coral. They pretty much stay on the flesh of the coral at all times unless laying eggs on dear parts of the edge of the growth. As long as you dip the corals the right way you can get rid of them without using a qt tank. I have never heard or seen aefw travel under the flesh of an acropora, not sure how that would be possible. But they can hide in crevices very well during the day.

Sounds like you don't have aefw if you can't see the bite marks with your named eye. The marks are obvious when they reach adult size and still visible when they are small.

Use melafix marine as a dip for aefw, it's very easy on the coral and kills the worms very well. Along with being very clear so you can see the worms fall off the coral in the dip. Trust me if you have them you will see them on the bottom of the dip bucket. Use a white container. Let us know what you find.

 

[codydemmel4]

I haven't seen aefw travel far from the base of a coral. They pretty much stay on the flesh of the coral at all times unless laying eggs on dear parts of the edge of the growth. As long as you dip the corals the right way you can get rid of them without using a qt tank. I have never heard or seen aefw travel under the flesh of an acropora, not sure how that would be possible. But they can hide in crevices very well during the day.

Sounds like you don't have aefw if you can't see the bite marks with your named eye. The marks are obvious when they reach adult size and still visible when they are small.

Use melafix marine as a dip for aefw, it's very easy on the coral and kills the worms very well. Along with being very clear so you can see the worms fall off the coral in the dip. Trust me if you have them you will see them on the bottom of the dip bucket. Use a white container. Let us know what you find.

I will do this next week, I used bayer yesterday so I want to give them a break. A lot of them still had a good amount of slime this morning, hoping I didnt leave them in too long. Was only 10 minutes but who knows. I also have been dosing flatworm stop which is suppose to make the slime coat stronger so maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[Captain smoke]

I have personal seen AEFW barrow or eat into the skeleton on across. I found pockets that can fit a BB into 0.177". Those are the hard ones to kill. I also found them on LR near the acropora, not sure if they travel on the LR or they let go and travel in the current in hopes of finding new acropora...

Anytime I buy new corals first thing I do is cut it off the frag plug. I dip in Coral RX with the old plug to see what comes off. I could not believe whats hiding between the plug and coral.