Anyone try GARF Grunge?
- Thread starter carb850
- Start date
firefish2020
New member
Nope but we made some CVRC grunge before. I think if you look around and ask a few people who have seen this stuff you will find all GARF grunge is is basically beat up Fiji live rock mixed with a bit of sand from some good established tanks.
carb850
New member
GARF claims it is full of beneficial organisms only including Sea Stars, Coraline Algae, Skud Shrimp, sand stirring worms, starfish, and shrimp. Do you think CVRC Grunge packs in as many organisms as GARF Grunge Plus? Would these organism be enough to take over dead or man made rock to look live again, if so how long?
phljess
New member
Any well established sand bed should have the same stuff GARF grunge has in it. You will get everything you need to get going from live rock and some live sand. The grunge is probably pretty good stuff but if it costs very much I would just go with live rock and some sand from a well established tank to get you seeded. Btw, even if Garf Grunge does not have any undesirable hitchikers in it you will pick them up from something (ie: live rock, coral, fish) You just deal with them when you get them.
If your wanting to boost your phytoplankton grab some chaeto and start growing it in a refuigium. Also put a nice sandbed in the refugium and you will get all kinds of creatures in a while. A refugium is a great habitat for mysis shrimp and other pods to get going. If you do not have a refugium, you really need to put one on line with your tank. This is best way I know to boost your pod population quickly.
To answer, how long it takes for dead rock/man-made rock to become live rock; thats like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a totsie pop.
It varies from tank to tank. A newly set up tank with minimal live rock will take a very long time to become colorful live rock. In a large tank filled with a large amount of live rock, dead rock will gain color fairly quickly (within about three months) but to become real live rock, full of sponges, and microfauna and microorganisms that takes a while (~two years).
If your wanting to boost your phytoplankton grab some chaeto and start growing it in a refuigium. Also put a nice sandbed in the refugium and you will get all kinds of creatures in a while. A refugium is a great habitat for mysis shrimp and other pods to get going. If you do not have a refugium, you really need to put one on line with your tank. This is best way I know to boost your pod population quickly.
To answer, how long it takes for dead rock/man-made rock to become live rock; thats like asking how many licks does it take to get to the center of a totsie pop.
It varies from tank to tank. A newly set up tank with minimal live rock will take a very long time to become colorful live rock. In a large tank filled with a large amount of live rock, dead rock will gain color fairly quickly (within about three months) but to become real live rock, full of sponges, and microfauna and microorganisms that takes a while (~two years).
firefish2020
New member
If you recall I gave away about 30 Lbs of starter sand a few months back and yes it was full of all those creatures and more. It's easy to make grunge guys, if you want to try it it would be a cool thing to do at the next meeting. If you are wanting coraline algae just buy a small live rock and pulverize it in a mortar & pestle or with a hammer mix it with some water and pour into your tank. Coraline is a spore so it will go everywhere. Under ideal lighting, Ca and Alkaline conditions you will have lots of coraline on those dead rocks and save lots of money. I tried the whole "garf way" guys(not grunge), it's not all it's cracked up to be thats all I'll say on that matter.
coralreefer
No Pistons
Oh man Ron I can't believe you drank the kool-aid :lol:
What Phil said
carb850
New member
Using the Garf method, I don't think you are supposed to use any live rock. So how many undesirable hitchhikers are you likely to get from fish and coral frags? Are you likely to bring home undesirables on the small pieces of live rock in which people sell with small colonies?
I don't have any idea to how many different types of undesirable hitchhikers people come across, but the ones that come to my mind include mantis shrimp, aptashia, and those worms which can grow to 6' or longer.
For what it is worth, what I was considering, in attempts to keep cost down a bit, was do 50% Marcco rocks then use the rest high quality live rock. The slower, cheaper, and I thought more safe way would be to get all Marco Rocks and seed the tank with Garf Grunge.
firefish2020
New member
Let me clear that up a bit Amy, I tried the GARF thing years ago when I was new and there was no CVRC or anyone local to really help 
All we had were 2 real local sources for information and I only had one as I did'nt know Jim yet. That's what we used to have before I was crazy enough to pull you all together into the CVRC LOL. I bought into the whole save the ocean grow your own reef thing but quickly realized you didn't need to send money off to strangers to do that when you could teach each other, make a difference and benefit here at home. Anyone is free to believe all the hype but after a few years you will come to see, like all of us that what you have in your own back yard is far more valuable that anything in someone else's.
The only thing from that list that I would consider a serious threat is Aiptasia Anemone and unless you plan to have no coral or ever put a single frag plug/rock into your system I'm afraid you can never rule them out entirely as they hide good and spread before you know you have them. BTW I got aiptasia from a "rare" GARF coral pack (all common coral) I made sure they knew about that and that was my last dealings with them. There is information and there is hyped information listen to those who know rather than those who blindly spout out rumors to feel good about themselves and you will have greater success in this hobby.
All we had were 2 real local sources for information and I only had one as I did'nt know Jim yet. That's what we used to have before I was crazy enough to pull you all together into the CVRC LOL. I bought into the whole save the ocean grow your own reef thing but quickly realized you didn't need to send money off to strangers to do that when you could teach each other, make a difference and benefit here at home. Anyone is free to believe all the hype but after a few years you will come to see, like all of us that what you have in your own back yard is far more valuable that anything in someone else's.The only thing from that list that I would consider a serious threat is Aiptasia Anemone and unless you plan to have no coral or ever put a single frag plug/rock into your system I'm afraid you can never rule them out entirely as they hide good and spread before you know you have them. BTW I got aiptasia from a "rare" GARF coral pack (all common coral) I made sure they knew about that and that was my last dealings with them. There is information and there is hyped information listen to those who know rather than those who blindly spout out rumors to feel good about themselves and you will have greater success in this hobby.
phljess
New member
For what it is worth, what I was considering, in attempts to keep cost down a bit, was do 50% Marcco rocks then use the rest high quality live rock. The slower, cheaper, and I thought more safe way would be to get all Marco Rocks and seed the tank with Garf Grunge.
Why not make your own base rock??
Why not make your own base rock??
carb850
New member
I like the look of the Marco Rocks which I believer are dried out Fugi rocks. Not only do they have great shapes but they should be made of calcium carbonate, right? Doesn't that aid in tank stability?
These rocks are 1/2 the price of live rock and shipping is much less because you can get them shipped ground. Also, I would be able to buy it in stages and store until I was ready to get the tank up and running. Trying to buy 80-120 lbs of Live Rock at once would be incredibly hard for me. I can purchase 4 $250 items much faster than I can a single $1000 item.
These rocks are 1/2 the price of live rock and shipping is much less because you can get them shipped ground. Also, I would be able to buy it in stages and store until I was ready to get the tank up and running. Trying to buy 80-120 lbs of Live Rock at once would be incredibly hard for me. I can purchase 4 $250 items much faster than I can a single $1000 item.
phljess
New member
Concrete has very very very much calcium and Alkalinity in it. So much it has to be cured for a long period of time before it can be used in a tank. I have been making my own rock for approximately two years now and you can ask others on this forum if my tank is healthy. The only real problem I see with making your own rock is being able to make it porous. Also do not fall into the silica sand will cause diatom blooms bull, that is totally a farse IME.
(I now will allow the brow beatings to be delivered to my head in a timely fashion.)
(I now will allow the brow beatings to be delivered to my head in a timely fashion.)
Last edited:
firefish2020
New member
I can purchase 4 $250 items much faster than I can a single $1000 item.
If you need rock I think you should look around local your pricing seems way off to me. I know Fiji Rock can be found much cheaper than that if you look for it.
If you need rock I think you should look around local your pricing seems way off to me. I know Fiji Rock can be found much cheaper than that if you look for it.
carb850
New member
I have not even decided 100% on a tank size but I"m leaning more and more toward a 90G. With a 90G, I assume I need 100 - 120lbs. Prices below are from Premium Aquatics, which is just an example, prices might be higher or lower at other locations. I have not got an exact quote for shipping, but they claim they can ship it to an airport for $35-$75 for the the first 100 lbs. I will assume $75 shipping cost.
(1)
Uncured Fiji
$3.99*120 lbs +$75 ship = $553.80
(2)
Uncured Marshall Island
$4.99*110 lbs + $75 ship = $623.90
(3)
50lbs of dead Fiji from Marco
$125+$19.78 shipping = $144.78
40lbs of Fiji
$3.99*40+ $50 ship = $209.60
Total $354.38
I'm making a lot of assumptions on shipping cost. Also, for volumes I'm assuming the Fiji is the most dense, Marshall being lighter, then dried Fiji is the litest by far. While these numbers are rough, they are not all that far off. It would take me awhile to save up $625 for a single live rock order, but doing a $150 order than later doing a $210 order is very realistic in my price range.
Also, have you guys seen the pictures of the Marco Rocks? They seem to have the nicest shapes of any rock I have seen. The only disadvantage I see is that it would take a little while for them to go from ghostly white dead rock to pretty multicolored live rock. In the 3 months or so of cycling, it should start getting colored right?
(1)
Uncured Fiji
$3.99*120 lbs +$75 ship = $553.80
(2)
Uncured Marshall Island
$4.99*110 lbs + $75 ship = $623.90
(3)
50lbs of dead Fiji from Marco
$125+$19.78 shipping = $144.78
40lbs of Fiji
$3.99*40+ $50 ship = $209.60
Total $354.38
I'm making a lot of assumptions on shipping cost. Also, for volumes I'm assuming the Fiji is the most dense, Marshall being lighter, then dried Fiji is the litest by far. While these numbers are rough, they are not all that far off. It would take me awhile to save up $625 for a single live rock order, but doing a $150 order than later doing a $210 order is very realistic in my price range.
Also, have you guys seen the pictures of the Marco Rocks? They seem to have the nicest shapes of any rock I have seen. The only disadvantage I see is that it would take a little while for them to go from ghostly white dead rock to pretty multicolored live rock. In the 3 months or so of cycling, it should start getting colored right?
carb850
New member
If you know of a local place were I can get rock that looks like the rock pictured below for $1.99 a lbs please let me know. (not trying to be a smart a$$ here, honest comment on finding it local)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/justin_ugr/IMG_3759.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/Deuce67/DSC03474800x600.jpg
75G with 50lbs.
http://www.rasecreations.com/hostimages/rock2.jpg
http://www.rasecreations.com/hostimages/rock6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v711/justin_ugr/IMG_3759.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/Deuce67/DSC03474800x600.jpg
75G with 50lbs.
http://www.rasecreations.com/hostimages/rock2.jpg
http://www.rasecreations.com/hostimages/rock6.jpg
firefish2020
New member
I used to know where you could get rock like that but not since the great Carib-sea incident. Just in the first picture there, I would never use any rock like that, looks like nothing more than bleached out coral heads and that is a big big NO NO ask carib-sea about that LOL. I don't think many of us ordered all our LR at once so a 50/50 mix is really all you need. I would go with a total of 100 Lbs for your rock. Remember you need to stack it to create holes for flow that's the most important. Order 50 or so then get 50 more later, just be sure it is all cured out and ready and you should be OK. Remember even supposedly dry rock can be wet inside and cause cycles. Oh BTW they sell it at 2.88 Lb plus shipping so it's pretty much the same if you think about it.
carb850
New member
Would you mind to enlighten me? I have no clue what the great Carib-sea incident is about. Why does this make old coral heads to be a bad thing? Not only do the shapes look interesting, but it would seem to me that all of those creaves would be ideal for supporting life all kinds of life.
The Marco Rock? They sell it for $2.50 a lbs but shipping which happens to be nothing (quoted $19.78 for 50 lbs). My rough numbers has uncured Fiji being $4.61 lbs. shipped and uncured Marshall $5.67 lbs. shipped. What does Fiji and Marshall cost locally?
coralreefer
No Pistons
Carib-sea got in a little trouble last year for mining protected coral rock from Haiti Reef Bones
Similar threads
