Apollo Reef LED SolarBlast Dimable Review

[Dustin1300]

That's a 48X24X16 tank so it'd need two fixtures to sufficiently cover but at 16" depth and likely frag racks, you'd just need to dial them back some depending on if you have any lower light coral. My tank is 18" high and racks are ~3 inches high and I have the fixture mounted at about 12 inches and seems to be working great.

 

[xcorallusx]

I have 4 units + 1 400 watt metal halide on my 350 gallon. I plan to replace the metal halide soon, and 5 units will be enough to grow sps anywhere. I would say 6 is the minimum for your tank and if youre trying to grow sps, get 8-10 units. I think making the moonlights dimmable would be a great idea, I think they are a little bright already and to be able to control that would be cool. Maybe in future models throw in a few greens and reds and upgrade to crees.

 

[vbsaltydog]

I think making the moonlights dimmable would be a great idea, I think they are a little bright already and to be able to control that would be cool.

I have two of the Apollo dimmables and I get great growth/color. My encrusting montis are larger by the day. I agree that the moonlights are a little too bright and should be reduced or made dimmable.

Maybe in future models throw in a few greens and reds and upgrade to crees.

There are reasons why they did not add greens/reds. Upgrading to Crees will double the cost of the fixture and change it's target market. At $700.00+ they would be competing with the Radion which blows their "mission statement".

Great fixtures. Good job Joe.

 

[Dustin1300]

I have 4 units + 1 400 watt metal halide on my 350 gallon. I plan to replace the metal halide soon, and 5 units will be enough to grow sps anywhere. I would say 6 is the minimum for your tank and if youre trying to grow sps, get 8-10 units. I think making the moonlights dimmable would be a great idea, I think they are a little bright already and to be able to control that would be cool. Maybe in future models throw in a few greens and reds and upgrade to crees.

Thanks on the recommendation. Tank will be mixed and I have my doubts on 6 units and think 8 is probably going to be more realistic on a 96"X48" tank but the recommendation for Radions was 12-14...A bit too high for something I'm really not going to see much more benefit than I would with something such as the Apollos!

Too many "features" exist in LEDs that are pointless and could really be harmful to our reefs because of all the spectrum changes. Having 8 channels, lightning mode, control from Android, and every color imagenable is really just a sales gimick in my eyes. I may be a little biased but just don't see the value in many of these "features". Are they cool, hell yeah! Are they needed? No.

I'm back and forth on the reds/greens. They don't add any benefit to the spectrum but can help bring out some of the colors in coral/fish.

 

[Dustin1300]

I have two of the Apollo dimmables and I get great growth/color. My encrusting montis are larger by the day. I agree that the moonlights are a little too bright and should be reduced or made dimmable.

Glad to hear some more positives from other owners. From what I've e-mailed back and forth to Joe, the dimmable LEDs for moonlights is in the future of the fixtures.

There are reasons why they did not add greens/reds. Upgrading to Crees will double the cost of the fixture and change it's target market. At $700.00+ they would be competing with the Radion which blows their "mission statement".

Great fixtures. Good job Joe.

Not 100% sure on the additions of the greens/reds but could not agree more with the Crees. While they provide more lumens per watt, the additional Crees needed to not have spotlighting in addition to the higher price of Crees...The fixtures would not be as affordable.

If anyone has any pictures of there setups with the fixture please share. I'm still trying to figure out my DSLR and can't quite seem to figure out how to take good pictures and can't quite find the free time to learn:spin2:

 

[bhazard451]

The problem I have with fixtures right now, is that Cree XT-E's and Luxeon's are inexpensive at certain places. They aren't much more than Bridgelux leds now, and they offer 3x the intensity. A $399 controllable Cree fixture can easily be made by a light company if they wanted to. The Maxspect Razor comes the closest so far.

I priced out my own DIY 36 led Cree XT-E/Luxeon fixture, and it would only cost around $250 in parts to make. This is with the Crees running at nearly 4.5 watts on standard meanwell drivers, and it would be close to 2x-3x more intense than the Apollo or other similar chinese unit. $399 would be very reasonable as a selling price for a Cree fixture. Don't be fooled into thinking it would cost $700. The parts in these fixtures are no different than what you can put together yourself, except these leds are on a pcb board.

I feel DIY is the much better option for Apex owners right now. Maxspect is coming close, but no one is offering a non fancy, Apex dimmable, Cree/Luxeon fixture for a reasonable price yet. They won't get my money until they do.

 

[vbsaltydog]

Where are you getting Crees at "not much more" than Bridgelux? and why do you say Crees are 3x stronger than Bridgelux?

Your comment suggests that the Apollo fixture is similar to a cheap chinese unit. This is not true. The chinese units dont use aluminum housings/heatsinks, stainless steel hanging kits, Meanwell drivers, PCB, waterproof rocker switches, CAT5 dimming ports, etc. The chinese units are usually non-dimmable also.

Apollo has plans to change their housing design from the "standardized" design to something proprietary to avoid people making such assumptions.

When you take the time to add up the components of the Apollo vs the cost of the fixture, you will realize that you are getting a good deal on a quality fixture.

You can save a few bucks and DIY something that is visually unappealing. I will spend a few bucks and have Apollo R&D and build me something that is plug-n-play and isn't an eye sore.

 

[Tater11]

we have three on our tank getting ready to order the 4th and final one.the tank is 375 gallons 96-30-30 so far i love these lights they are the non dimmable ones.joe at apollo is a great guy to deal with here's a few pics
fts with only three over the tank so far

the lights very well packaged

over the tank i have turned them long ways as joe suggested and angled the end one up a little they look much better this way.

 

[Tater11]

here's some coral shots sorry pics are kind of crappy

 

[vbsaltydog]

How high off the water do you have them? They look to be pretty close to the water. One of the nice things about the high par is that you can put the lights high and get some good spread, especially if you dont need to grow SPS in the sand bed.

 

[bhazard451]

Where are you getting Crees at "not much more" than Bridgelux? and why do you say Crees are 3x stronger than Bridgelux?

Your comment suggests that the Apollo fixture is similar to a cheap chinese unit. This is not true. The chinese units dont use aluminum housings/heatsinks, stainless steel hanging kits, Meanwell drivers, PCB, waterproof rocker switches, CAT5 dimming ports, etc. The chinese units are usually non-dimmable also.

Apollo has plans to change their housing design from the "standardized" design to something proprietary to avoid people making such assumptions.

When you take the time to add up the components of the Apollo vs the cost of the fixture, you will realize that you are getting a good deal on a quality fixture.

You can save a few bucks and DIY something that is visually unappealing. I will spend a few bucks and have Apollo R&D and build me something that is plug-n-play and isn't an eye sore.

They are in fact very similar. I own and have opened and dissected two types of Chinese fixtures. A D120 black box (which is exactly what the Apollo is, only made with a few better parts which I'll point out later, and a 48 led circular, modular model called the Nova (or Apollo 4, from Cidly)

- The chinese units dont use aluminum housings/heatsinks
Both chinese units use aluminum housings. The d120 does not use aluminum heatsinks, but my Nova model does. I have pics in the chinese thread to prove it. Apollo added heatsinks to the d120, which does make it better and adds a bit of cost. They even use the same aluminum housing as the chinese one.

- stainless steel hanging kits
Chinese use cheaper hanging kits, yes. Nothing $10 at home depot can't fix.

- Meanwell drivers
d120/Nova use proprietary drivers running at 580 mah. They are dimmable, but only by resistance. The models I have have leds wired in series, so they are high voltage drivers. The leds are protected by voltage regulating ICs within each led to prevent a whole string going out if one led broke.

The Meanwell's are wired in parallel in the Apollo, and offer 0-10v dimming... which chinese drivers don't atm. I replaced the chinese drivers in my Nova with high voltage 0-10v custom chinese drivers and they are now Apex dimmable. The meanwell's cost slightly more, but not much, so there isn't substantial cost added here by using meanwells instead.

-PCB
The chinese fixtures all use PCB boards for the leds

-waterproof rocker switches
Same.

-Cat5 dimming port
easily added with 0-10v drivers. I just cut one end of an ethernet cable and connected the correct wires to the dimmable part of the driver on mine. Cost $5 for an ethernet cable.

-The chinese units are usually non-dimmable also
Many, like mine, are resistance dimmable via a Pot.

Cree's easily put out 3x more lumens per watt than Bridgelux. You can see for yourself via their published spec sheet here.

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED%20Components%20and%20Modules/XLamp/Data%20and%20Binning/XLampXTE.pdf

Cree XT-E from Steve's Led - $2.50 each
http://shop.stevesleds.com/Cree-XT-E-Royal-Blue-3-watt-LEDs-CreeXTERB.htm

URL is blocked from this site for some reason.

EDIT:If it is blocked that should be a good indication that the company is one not welcome here, so don't post it.

Unmodified, my chinese Nova fixture includes everything the Apollo has except for 0-10v Apex dimming and internal moonlights for $230, which I've shown in detail. This is with overnight shipping from Hong Kong included in the price as well. Tell me again why Apollo couldn't make the light a Cree light for $399, when a very similar light to the Apollo costs $170 without shipping fees? It is very much possible. It is just better for them to profit more from less informed buyers who have no other choice. The commercial fixtures are even higher and crazier in price, so the Apollo seems like a great buy.

I'm not saying the Apollo fixture is a bad light, I'm saying they can easily make a profitable Cree one at $399 at only a slight cost increase to them. If I can make a really nice one at $250, then they certainly can at $399. Led companies just have no desire to right now, as long as you are paying premium prices for cheaper parts.

The real kicker here... the pcb board used here in the Apollo and most of the other parts.... very likely are also from China. Should I go on?

 

[SKAREEF]

Bhazard451... Soungs like a good debate. Do you make lights for others.

 

[vbsaltydog]

- stainless steel hanging kits
Chinese use cheaper hanging kits, yes. Nothing $10 at home depot can't fix.

Add it to the cost of your chinese fixture.

- Meanwell drivers
d120/Nova use proprietary drivers running at 580 mah. They are dimmable, but only by resistance. The models I have have leds wired in series, so they are high voltage drivers. The leds are protected by voltage regulating ICs within each led to prevent a whole string going out if one led broke.

The Meanwell's are wired in parallel in the Apollo, and offer 0-10v dimming... which chinese drivers don't atm. I replaced the chinese drivers in my Nova with high voltage 0-10v custom chinese drivers and they are now Apex dimmable. The meanwell's cost slightly more, but not much, so there isn't substantial cost added here by using meanwells instead.

So your point is that the chinese fixtures use inferior drivers and if you want a controllable fixture, replace them with more expensive drivers. Add that to the cost of your fixture.

-Cat5 dimming port
easily added with 0-10v drivers. I just cut one end of an ethernet cable and connected the correct wires to the dimmable part of the driver on mine. Cost $5 for an ethernet cable.

So the chinese fixture doesnt have it. Add that to the cost of your fixture.

-The chinese units are usually non-dimmable also
Many, like mine, are resistance dimmable via a Pot.

Non controllable.

Cree's easily put out 3x more lumens per watt than Bridgelux. You can see for yourself via their published spec sheet here.

http://www.cree.com/~/media/Files/Cree/LED%20Components%20and%20Modules/XLamp/Data%20and%20Binning/XLampXTE.pdf

The spec sheet lists 148 lumens per watt.

Bridgelux are 135 lumens per watt:

http://bridgelux.com/media-center/p...-silicon-technology-for-solid-state-lighting/

Hardly 3x more efficient.

Cree XT-E from Steve's Led - $2.50 each
http://shop.stevesleds.com/Cree-XT-E-Royal-Blue-3-watt-LEDs-CreeXTERB.htm

This is only for royal blue. Whats the price for the cool whites? Cree XT-E cool whites are $4.00/each at clay-boa. That's nearly double your quoted price.

Unmodified, my chinese Nova fixture includes everything the Apollo has except for 0-10v Apex dimming and internal moonlights for $230, which I've shown in detail. This is with overnight shipping from Hong Kong included in the price as well.

You also failed to mention the 2 year warrantee on the Apollos. What warrantee comes on the Chinese Nova?

I have clearly outlined that your chinese Nova fixture DOES NOT include everything that the Apollo fixture does and would need heavy modification to meet the Apollo's features.
I have also clearly proven that Crees ARE NOT 3x more efficient than Bridgelux and that they are not close in price either. You will pay significantly more money for marginally more efficient LEDs.

You also keep quoting the Apollo fixture at $399.00 but then you quote items at sale prices when trying to make your point. If we are going to use sale prices then you should quote the Apollo non-dimmable at $299.00 and the Apollo dimmable at $359.00

Shall I go on?

The fact of the matter is that the Apollo uses high grade materials (aluminum housing/heatsink,meanwell drivers,etc.) to power the considerably less expensive (while being marginally less efficient) Bridgelux LEDs vs. the much more expensive, and only marginally more efficient, Cree LEDs in an attempt to provide a rock solid fixture for a reasonable price.

If you think you can build a better fixture for much less, the market is yours for the taking. We look forward to seeing your fixtures for sale soon.

 

[xcorallusx]

Apollos are great fixtures for the price right now, but as new fixtures are introduced and led prices go down they are going to have to come out with a fixture that has more colors and has a more of a custom design. I think they are off to a great start but they will have to step it up with the new ais coming out. I think ais and apollos have the most competition because of the similar pricing, but you can get a lot more par vs. the ai's. My recommendation is if you have a nano tank and want something sleek that looks good go with ai, if you have a big tank and have a canopy go with the apollos.

 

[Tater11]

How high off the water do you have them? They look to be pretty close to the water. One of the nice things about the high par is that you can put the lights high and get some good spread, especially if you dont need to grow SPS in the sand bed.

in the pics they were 8in. Off the water 2 weeks ago I raised them too 12in. Because some of the higher coral was starting to look bleached

 

[Dustin1300]

Guys, quite the debate going on here but let's just agree to disagree here and not start a huge debate. I personally don't want to dismantle a fixture to bring it up to an equivalent to that of an Apollo and after you consider your original purchase price of the chinese fixtures, and then add all the additional costs of having the better built Apollo you quickly find that the price has hiked considerably. My time is worth more than buying 8 chinese fixtures, dismantling with better components and putting them all back together.

Crees vs Bridgelux....I'd say the 3Xs statement was way off! You could say they are 20-30% more efficient but when you compare the initial investment, you quickly find that the lumens/watt is not as important.

As far as colors of LEDs, I think that's something that's not going to come to light but time will tell. I would not mind seeing a few reds/greens mixed in to make some colors pop with fish/coral.

@Tator, thanks for posting the pics up and they look great! How long have you had them on the tank and do you have any growth shots before/after?

 

[Tater11]

Thanks dustin I've had them on for about 3 months I had my coral on a frag rack for awhile to adjust them to the lights.they've been permanently mounted on the rock for about 3 weeks and are already encrusting on the rock.ill post some before and after pics when i get home later.

 

[Tater11]

Thanks dustin I've had them on for about 3 months I had my coral on a frag rack for awhile to adjust them to the lights.they've been permanently mounted on the rock for about 3 weeks and are already encrusting on the rock.ill post some before and after pics when i get home later.

 

[Dustin1300]

Thanks dustin I've had them on for about 3 months I had my coral on a frag rack for awhile to adjust them to the lights.they've been permanently mounted on the rock for about 3 weeks and are already encrusting on the rock.ill post some before and after pics when i get home later.

Greatly appreciate the growth shots. Like I said earlier, I'm still learning how to use a DSLR....Hoping to get better now that I have a descent camera, just need a macro lens!

 

[Dustin1300]

To further elaborate on the earlier debates, while I would agree looking at LEDs lumens per watt is something that matters it shouldn't be the deciding factor in any lighting decisions IMHO. The spectral plot of the LED diodes and the plot of the final fixture matters more. This is where things start to get a lot more complicated as very few people can get a true spectral plot of their DIY fixtures. Only a handful of companies even offer plots of their fixtures. Many of them just reuse the plots from the diode maker. This means that they aren't accurate any longer because voltage, current, drivers and even lens quality can all affect the spectral plot of the fixture.

Add to that the debate about the actual needs of corals and then we have a whole new can of worms to sort out. Adding in a lot of unproven and unnecessary features and colors can only muddy the waters further. With that being said, let's just keep this thread on track! :beer: